Building a 302 and Require Input

dduran

New Member
May 24, 2020
3
1
1
36
California
Hi everyone,

I'm starting to piece together my motor for my 65 fastback and was hoping for some input. I purchased a 1978 long block from a friend who abandoned the build some time ago. I'll start by saying thank you in advance for everyone's feedback. The car is not a daily driver and I don't plan to drive it more than a couple of times a month, so, street manners are not an issue. I would like to build the most aggressive engine that is possible without having to trailer it around town, let's say a goal of 300 - 350hp. I've outlined the details of the build as it stands today below.

I'm concerned the cam is not aggressive enough for my HP goal and the heads even with porting could hold me back, thoughts?

Thank you,


1978 Ford 302 Long Block (D8VE-6015-A3A) which I believe have larger main caps

D8OE heads with the following work
STAGE I PORTING
16 IRON VALVE GUIDES
8 11575 MANLEY PERF 1.550" FORD SB EXHAUST VALVE
8 11578 MANLEY PERF 1.850" FORD SB INTAKE VALVE
VALVE JOB-COMPETITION RADIUS-V8-2 VALVE-INLINE VALVE
Crane Valve Springs: 363308-1 (96803-16)
Crane Needle Bearing Rocker Arms 1.6 Ratio
Crane Cam 363932: 4600 RPM, 210int/218exh, .456in/.472exh

VALVE PART NUMBERS: INT 11578 EXH 11575
VALVE HEAD DIAMETERS: INT 1.850" EXH 1.550"
VALVE STEM DIAMETERS: INT 11/32" EXH 11/32"
VALVE SEAT WIDTHS: INT .040" EXH .060"
VALVE SEAT ANGLES: INT 45 DEG EXH 45 DEG
SPRING INFO: PRESS @ INST HGHT = 100 LBS @ 1.760"
VALVE LIFT = - .472" EXHAUST, .456 INTAKE
PRESS @ OPEN HGHT = 240 LBS @ 1.288"
COIL BIND = - 1.130"
MARGIN = .158"
Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake Manifold
Carburetor TBD
Ignition TBD

Short Block
Speed Pro Pistons .030 over
Crower Sportsman Forged Rods
Transmission
Top Loader Wide Ratio
Rear End
9" with Trac Lock and 3.25 Gears

Considering the following upgrade: Lunati 10350703 (.522/.538 lift), 6,200 RPM, 227/233 duration
Considering the following upgrade: Replacing D8OE heads with AFR Enforcer 185cc heads
 

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Stang_1973

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2001
556
8
28
San Antonio, Tx.
Back when i had a 302, flat top forged pistons, E7 heads(fox body) that were mildy ported, and I had a performer intake, holly 650 4V carb, comp cam 270H cam 224/224 with .500 lift on both sides, long tubes through dual exhaust, C4 transmission, 8" rear 2.73 read gear...... I wanna say it was putting down like 220 hp to the wheels? ill have to see if i can find my old dyno sheet from back then. heck it couldve been 240....

my current 351 setup is basically a good 302 setup, and im putting 305 to the wheels right now. I have alot of room to grow for the 351. my next setup will put me at about 400 to the wheels.

If you have in your budget to get more power, id prolly go with an RPM Air gap intake and RPM heads. the top end kit from Edelbrock claims 367 HP from their 302 setup, even comes with a matching cam.

the nice thing is you have a manual transmission so it robs less HP than my AOD.

your alternate heads and cam are good candidates but youll need to step up you intake. All the parts have to "work together" to get the most out of them. but if your going to put together all thats stuff that way, id just go with a dyno tested power package that will get you where you already want to be.
 

dduran

New Member
May 24, 2020
3
1
1
36
California
Hey @Stang_1973,

I really appreciate the feedback and that is a great setup you have! I'm going to give Edelbrock a call and get their input on my build. I like the idea of having room to grow, as you noted above.
 
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Stang_1973

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2001
556
8
28
San Antonio, Tx.
Hey @Stang_1973,

I really appreciate the feedback and that is a great setup you have! I'm going to give Edelbrock a call and get their input on my build. I like the idea of having room to grow, as you noted above.
unfortunately for me, they dont make the 351 EFI power package anymore. When they had it, it was advertised at about 450 HP. however the guy ive used before is pointing me in a TFS intake/heads setup and possible custom cam to get 400 to the wheels. And after that, a S/C would put me at about the limit of my built AOD. But thats still far off.....

good luck with your build, let us know what you find out.
 

65ShelbyClone

Founding Member
Sep 9, 2000
4,642
29
119
Antelope Valley, SoCal
If you have in your budget to get more power, id prolly go with an RPM Air gap intake and RPM heads. the top end kit from Edelbrock claims 367 HP from their 302 setup, even comes with a matching cam.
I find it curious that they don't list any information about the heads or cam. I can figure out that the heads are Performer RPMs, but that means 2.02 intake valves and likely having to clearance the pistons with enough cam to make nearly 370bhp. Many Speed Pro pistons don't have huge valve reliefs. I had to clearance the ones in my 302/5.0 with just 1.90 valves and the cam really isn't aggressive.
 
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2Blue2

will be trying this sex one when I can find it
Mar 5, 2019
2,294
1,385
133
53
Oahu
I have the complete Performer RPM kit on my 289 (smaller valve size heads)
Carb, Air gap Manifold, RPM Cam, RPM Heads, Water pump, Fuel pump, fuel filter.

I luv my Edelbrock Stuff

I was convinced by a hot rod mag shoot out back in the day.
Edelbrock came in about 20 hp shy of the biggest numbers posted by the other competitors,
but the mag said Edelbrock did it with the least tuning and fiddling.
Just bolted it together and made the number.

You can have all the right parts but if you can't tune them they ain't worth a chit
 
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Stang_1973

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2001
556
8
28
San Antonio, Tx.
I have the complete Performer RPM kit on my 289 (smaller valve size heads)
Carb, Air gap Manifold, RPM Cam, RPM Heads, Water pump, Fuel pump, fuel filter.

I luv my Edelbrock Stuff

I was convinced by a hot rod mag shoot out back in the day.
Edelbrock came in about 20 hp shy of the biggest numbers posted by the other competitors,
but the mag said Edelbrock did it with the least tuning and fiddling.
Just bolted it together and made the number.

You can have all the right parts but if you can't tune them they ain't worth a chit
have you had it dynoed?
 
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74stang2togo

I need something stupid to play with
Mod Dude
Mar 7, 2002
7,908
3,761
224
Hi everyone,

I'm starting to piece together my motor for my 65 fastback and was hoping for some input. I purchased a 1978 long block from a friend who abandoned the build some time ago. I'll start by saying thank you in advance for everyone's feedback. The car is not a daily driver and I don't plan to drive it more than a couple of times a month, so, street manners are not an issue. I would like to build the most aggressive engine that is possible without having to trailer it around town, let's say a goal of 300 - 350hp. I've outlined the details of the build as it stands today below.

I'm concerned the cam is not aggressive enough for my HP goal and the heads even with porting could hold me back, thoughts?

Thank you,


1978 Ford 302 Long Block (D8VE-6015-A3A) which I believe have larger main caps

D8OE heads with the following work
STAGE I PORTING
16 IRON VALVE GUIDES
8 11575 MANLEY PERF 1.550" FORD SB EXHAUST VALVE
8 11578 MANLEY PERF 1.850" FORD SB INTAKE VALVE
VALVE JOB-COMPETITION RADIUS-V8-2 VALVE-INLINE VALVE
Crane Valve Springs: 363308-1 (96803-16)
Crane Needle Bearing Rocker Arms 1.6 Ratio
Crane Cam 363932: 4600 RPM, 210int/218exh, .456in/.472exh

VALVE PART NUMBERS: INT 11578 EXH 11575
VALVE HEAD DIAMETERS: INT 1.850" EXH 1.550"
VALVE STEM DIAMETERS: INT 11/32" EXH 11/32"
VALVE SEAT WIDTHS: INT .040" EXH .060"
VALVE SEAT ANGLES: INT 45 DEG EXH 45 DEG
SPRING INFO: PRESS @ INST HGHT = 100 LBS @ 1.760"
VALVE LIFT = - .472" EXHAUST, .456 INTAKE
PRESS @ OPEN HGHT = 240 LBS @ 1.288"
COIL BIND = - 1.130"
MARGIN = .158"
Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake Manifold
Carburetor TBD
Ignition TBD

Short Block
Speed Pro Pistons .030 over
Crower Sportsman Forged Rods
Transmission
Top Loader Wide Ratio
Rear End
9" with Trac Lock and 3.25 Gears

Considering the following upgrade: Lunati 10350703 (.522/.538 lift), 6,200 RPM, 227/233 duration
Considering the following upgrade: Replacing D8OE heads with AFR Enforcer 185cc heads
Your build with the worked-over 70s heads is really close the the engine in my car.

It put down 267hp on the dyno with a 670cfm Holley Street Avenger that was perpetually out of tune (I hated that thing). The "butt dyno" saw a huge improvement with an Edelbrock Thunder AVS 650cfm (never made it to the dyno with it the first time, maybe this time around) and converting the car to MSD EFI saw no significant change compared to the Edelbrock, and was actually a pain in the ass compared to said Edelbrock (which is why, after five years of the car being EFI, it'll be taking a technological leap backward to a carburetor).

If I was building a 302 now, there's no way I'd do ported OE heads again, in spite of just how good my D5AE castings have been for me. There are so many aluminum heads out there now, with so many improvements, and the prices are so cheap (especially when you can find a used pair), that I'd start there. Even the cheap Chinese-cast "Floo-tek" heads on Ebay have been dyno tested by the mags and proven to make power, so when the bar to entry for aluminum heads is now that low, there's virtually no reason not to.

@LILCBRA has aluminum heads and one of the Chinese intakes and was all of 2rwhp below my engine and made more torque with a nicer torque curve. I'd bet a paycheck his car would kick mine's ass on the dyno with some tuning, that Holley on mine wasn't that far off (for once) on dyno day while his was way out and made damned close to my horsepower number. https://stangnet.com/mustang-forums/threads/so-i-did-a-thing-today.913231/
 

DBegley

Member
Jun 24, 2017
39
7
18
69
I just did a 302 rebuild. Had two bad head gaskets. Fortunately I did the build before I had any serious issues. My 302 is a 68. My engine builder wanted to port the stock heads. With what he wanted to charge to do that heads, I decided to opt for a set of Edelbrock E-street heads. Combustion chamber 60cc, Intake 2.02", exhaust 1.60". Bigger ports, better flow. He wanted to use a Comp Xtreme Energy Cam with lift .509/.512 Duration 268/280. Elgin roller tipped rockers, Comp springs. Icon flat topped forged pistons with valve dishes for that high lift cam. Blue printed and balanced the engine. The intake is the stock Shelby Cobra (Offenhauser) hi--rise, dual plane. Topped with a new Holley Brawler 600 cfm with mechanical secondaries. It dynoed at 310 horses with a borrowed carb. I figure we added about 80 HP. My Mustang really woke up with that 3.89 rear end and this new motor with the stock 4 speed toploader. I would have liked more HP but this is more than acceptable.

That cam lift is about as high as I could go and still have vacuum for my power brakes. Very streetable combination. Realize your choices have other implications like vacuum for power brakes. Also he set this up to run on 91 octane.

The Flo-Tek heads were cheaper but I opted for the American heads with Edelbrock.

My wife says my Mustang is loud obnoxious. Yep, it is. Much louder than it was before the build.

I have about 800 miles on the build. Been driving it every chance I get. I needed to get 500 city miles on my McLeod stage 2 clutch and diaphragm pressure plate. Love this clutch. HUGE improvement over stock. The engine is running better all the time. Going to get it tuned for this carb at a local shop that knows carbs. My plan was to do that early in the spring so I have it dynoed at my favorite car show. But show didn't happen in June.
 
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