Bullitt Suspension on 86 GT Vert

The springs will work. Most claim the Bullit and Mach 1 springs lower a fox. The struts will work as well, but most say the car bottoms out before the struts do because the strut is longer.

Yes, there are several guys on here running the Bullitt suspension on their cars. I have the struts & shocks with my stock springs. The extra length is partly due to the lower mounting points on the SN95 spindles. Where the two bolts fit is lower than on the Fox spindles, so they would work well on cars with the SN95 5 lug conversions.

I have Mach 1's on the 88 GT vert.

However, there are differences with the pre-aero cars. Search Stang&2Birds (that's a username) for info. IIRC, he did what you propose on his '86.

Good luck.

First Welcome!

Second, be careful. You often get quick answers in the forums. That may be fine for 75%->90% of the people. But, what if you're not one of the 75%->90%? In your case, you are not! Not by a long shot!

There are a number of issues before any suspension mod is done to a Stang. So, can you put Bullitt springs on your Stang? Sure. Heck, you could even put the POS B springs on your vert Stang. Putting B springs on a vert (and keeping them on) is just plain stupid. But, I'm sure if you search long enough, you'll find people that have done, have it currently, and would even *recommend* it. The point again is to be very careful! FWIW: I don't _think_ anyone on either this forum or the corral has that type of setup.

Now, the most important thing of all is why do you want to change the springs at all on your car? I mean the exact reason(s), and in order.

Next, do you have an AOD (Auto), or T5 (5-spd).
Do you have sub-frames?
CC plates, STB, bump-steer kit?
WHAT TIRES AND WHEELS?
Do you have the death-wish worthless POS stock brakes on the car?
ANY other mods (alum heads, 3-core radiator, sn95 brakes, fuzzy dice ).
Bla, bla, bla.

For a Fox, you always want to use Fox struts. The sn95 struts are too long and have less bump travel. But, people, like me , do use sn95 struts for different reasons. One is that you can get the Bullitt struts in a package. But, IMHO, they are a bad choice for a Stang that's lowered too much. I use sn95 struts because my car isn't lowered much and I want to be able to change the ABS sensors without removing the strut. I have the 98 Cobra ABS system on my car.

There are a *number* of factors that effect how much a particular car will be lowered by set of springs.

You have an '86. You have pure cr*p for camber adjustment. Even with CC plates! But, some people want their "ground scraping" cars regardless of how much it screws up the handling or performance of the car (or even having positive camber all of the time!). Again, it's all want you want! It's not about what I want or what others want. You can get suggestions. But, unless you say exactly what you want, you'll get a lot of different views.

I'll tell you the right way (from an engineering point of view) on how to do a suspension mod. And what should be done if you want a street handling/performance setup. Track, OT/CT/Qtr mile, all have their own requirements. But, it's not cheap. But, it's also not that expensive! It is more than just slapping some springs on the car and calling it a day.

At the very least, you will need sub-frames and an STB for a vert! Then, with an 86 you need CC plates (get MM!) if the car is lowered at all! A bump-steer kit is a very good idea, and I highly suggest it. But, it's not "100% needed". If you have an auto vert, you can't use just the Bullitt springs without getting into (IMHO) "ricer" territory (you'd have *poorer* handling & performance, and a very real risk of the strut bottoming out). But, for ~$50, you could add on the Steeda spring spacers and get close to ~3/4" drop on a vert with an AOD.

Like I said, there are *many* issues involved. There's are differences between "can I do it", "will it help performance", "will it hurt performance", "will it not make much difference", etc.

FWIW: Here is my set up:
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/misc/Mustang1986_with_Mach1_springs/

*I* can not have a car that's lowered too much. I have an *86* with the sn95 Cobra brakes, D178 rims, "wide" 245/45/17 RE720 tires (wider than a typical 245), and 1/4" wheel spacer up front. Also, for an *86*, I still had to do custom brackets for the caliper hoses because of wheel rubbing (even with the wheel spacer). I also have an AOD. Oh yea, and I still don't have nearly enough camber for my desires. Argg! But, I'm at least back to stock.

Like I said, there's the "75%-90%", and then there are the rest of us. The 92/93 Stangs have it the best in terms of mods. Other than that, each group of years have their own concerns and limitations. The 85/86's have the most limitations and concerns. But, that doesn't mean that stuff can't be done. It just means that it has to be done with more research.

Also, when ever asking a tech question, make *sure* you say that you have an '86 vert! Like you did in this thread. Otherwise, it's mostly assumed that you have a 90's hatch 5-spd Fox.

Last: Putting on a foolish mod (like I did when I put the POS B springs on my car), realizing that it's a foolish mod, and then changing it is not stupid - it's called learning! Nothing is wrong with learning! But, be careful in doing a mod, seeing that it's not good, and just keeping it because "others have". People do bad mods all of the time! In the end, you are the one that's responsible for your car, it's safety, it ride & performance, and so on. That's one of the best things about owning a Fox, there are tons of mods that you can do!

Four Eyes RULE!

I have the signatures turned off. They take up to much room and many are too tacky.

Don't sell the stuff if you want to get better handling for your car. But, you absolutely *need* sub-frames on a vert before you go to stiffer springs. The Bullitt/Mach1 springs are 50% stuffer. Plus, they *require* CC (Caster Camber) plates on an 86. That adds even more NVH (Noise Vibration Harness) to the car since the strut is connected by a helm joint (bearing) to the strut tower and no longer by "soft/firm" rubber bushings.

Sorry, with an '86 vert, you're pretty limited if you want to go lower at all with what you can "get away" with. A regular 87+ hatch can cut their springs to lower their car 1/2" and "get away" with it while having a "stock feeling ride". But, properly to lower a Stang by even 1/2", you're suppose to go from 425lbs/in springs to 600lbs/in springs. That's what Ford did on the Bullitt & Mach1 and I posted here before on how to do the calculations to maintain similar jounce rates (for force amount before bottoming out).

Good luck with your new four eye!
FWIW: At least upgrade to the 87+ spindles, rotors, and calipers to get a little better braking on your car. You may also need to replace the struts.

Last: Any pictures???

MattLag said:

Thanks stang&2Birds, much appreciated. I added a few more mods to my signature. It sounds its best for me to first eBay off that Bullitt kit and do some more research!

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stang&2birds gives some good advice.

I will add that H&R Springs ARE the best springs made for any car. The others are simply OK.

Also, although expensive you just can't beat bilsteins for shocks. Period!

Also, like stang&2birds said, YOU MUST put subframes on a vert. I would also recommend welding a nice bead around the torque boxes.

88-378 said:

I will add that H&R Springs ARE the best springs made for any car. The others are simply OK.

Click to expand...

Which H&R springs? Don't they also mike "ricer" springs that are way too low for the rate. Also, what makes them better than Ford, MM, Griggs, or Eibach? Any top quality spring is "exactly the same" as any other spring with respect to spring rate and drop.

Other than the Ford OEM Bullitt and Mach1 springs, I like MM and Griggs. But, Griggs are cut to length. IMHO, too complicated for 99.9% of the people to do correctly. Otherwise, I 100% agree that H&R makes some of the best springs and setup. Also, Eibach springs are just as good as the rest. In fact, they've OEM a few specialty springs for Ford.

Ford OEM springs last a zillion years and a giga-zillion miles with no sag - as should *any* top quality automotive spring. Kinda funny how people that talk about "spring sag" never ever have an engineering degree or real-world experience with springs, isn't it? I have both.

The fender drop that people see in the Stang (and other cars) is due to the isolators being compressed. Take that '82 Stang spring out of the car, put in new isolators, and voila the Stang "magically" goes back to the same fender height as it did when it came from the factory - assuming the correct diameter tires are used it's still 100% stock.

BTW: Take a tape measure to your tires and fender. If the tires aren't ~25.7", then they are not the correct diameter tires. With a stock fender height of ~27.25", that gives ~1.5" of clearance between the tire and fender - which is *not* that much. In fact, ~90% of the other cars have more tire to fender clearance - just check it out next time you're in any parking lot.



MattLag:
Wow, what a clean car! Nice!
Yea, get SFCs first!
Also, like I said, those brakes are a death-trap waiting to happen. I KNOW!

The sn95 brake setup is the best. On 86's, you *must* BASH the strut tower to get any sn95 booster in there. A regular sn95 booster shouldn't be too bad. I have the OEM big *ss 95 Cobra booster in there. It varies over the Fox years on how well the sn95 booster fit. Again, 92 & 93 owners can just elongate a mounting hole and slip the booster right in. Yea, no ******ing way on an '86!
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/joe/brakes/graphics/bumpForPowerBooster.jpg
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/joe/brakes/graphics/bumpForPowerBooster2.jpg
BTW: That fold is welded on *both* sides of the strut tower.

With an '86, you'll have little camber with a 94/96 spindle. With 96+ (IMHO, never a good idea on a fox), you'll likely go even positive! :O You should put on a CC plate if you go with an sn95 brake setup. But, you don't absolutely "have to".

The 87-93 spindles with the caliper upgrade is a good cheaper and easier brake upgrade.

stang&2Birds said:

Which H&R springs? Don't they also mike "ricer" springs that are way too low for the rate. Also, what makes them better than Ford, MM, Griggs, or Eibach? Any top quality spring is "exactly the same" as any other spring with respect to spring rate and drop.

Other than the Ford OEM Bullitt and Mach1 springs, I like MM and Griggs. But, Griggs are cut to length. IMHO, too complicated for 99.9% of the people to do correctly. Otherwise, I 100% agree that H&R makes some of the best springs and setup. Also, Eibach springs are just as good as the rest. In fact, they've OEM a few specialty springs for Ford.

Ford OEM springs last a zillion years and a giga-zillion miles with no sag - as should *any* top quality automotive spring. Kinda funny how people that talk about "spring sag" never ever have an engineering degree or real-world experience with springs, isn't it? I have both.

The fender drop that people see in the Stang (and other cars) is due to the isolators being compressed. Take that '82 Stang spring out of the car, put in new isolators, and voila the Stang "magically" goes back to the same fender height as it did when it came from the factory - assuming the correct diameter tires are used it's still 100% stock.

BTW: Take a tape measure to your tires and fender. If the tires aren't ~25.7", then they are not the correct diameter tires. With a stock fender height of ~27.25", that gives ~1.5" of clearance between the tire and fender - which is *not* that much. In fact, ~90% of the other cars have more tire to fender clearance - just check it out next time you're in any parking lot.



MattLag:
Wow, what a clean car! Nice!
Yea, get SFCs first!
Also, like I said, those brakes are a death-trap waiting to happen. I KNOW!

The sn95 brake setup is the best. On 86's, you *must* BASH the strut tower to get any sn95 booster in there. A regular sn95 booster shouldn't be too bad. I have the OEM big *ss 95 Cobra booster in there. It varies over the Fox years on how well the sn95 booster fit. Again, 92 & 93 owners can just elongate a mounting hole and slip the booster right in. Yea, no ******ing way on an '86!
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/joe/brakes/graphics/bumpForPowerBooster.jpg
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/joe/brakes/graphics/bumpForPowerBooster2.jpg
BTW: That fold is welded on *both* sides of the strut tower.

With an '86, you'll have little camber with a 94/96 spindle. With 96+ (IMHO, never a good idea on a fox), you'll likely go even positive! :O You should put on a CC plate if you go with an sn95 brake setup. But, you don't absolutely "have to".

The 87-93 spindles with the caliper upgrade is a good cheaper and easier brake upgrade.

Click to expand...

H&R is a very reputable German company. they are IS09001QAS compliant as well. In addition they are the OEM supplier of many springs for cars that are much more money and have much more performance than ours. ie: BMW M series

I purchased their sport springs for my '88 Saleen vert. Eibachs are junk! Not familiar with the Ford springs.

I took the advice on H&Rs from a man who grew up in South Africa working with BMW and was transferred here to the states with BMW and now owns and independent shop that tunes and modifies many a road race Porsche, BMW and Mercs.

Also, just because a ricer chooses to put his or her car in danger by using a certain spring for the wrong reasons or looks is not at all the responsibility of the manufacterer.