Calling all techies, building a street h/c/i combo

dstang01 · Dec 17, 2007

In the new year I want to take the plunge and do some power mods. Ive decided on a explorer setup (upper and lower intake with gt40p heads, stock HO cam maybe with some 1.7s) Ive done my research, but theres a few things I still have to pick your guys' brains about. Thanks in advance for the help, i know there are alot of questions :

1. I've done some research on the EGR, and Ive decided that it would be in my best interest to keep it (lower combustion temps, gotta pass emissions, better fuel economy, lower risk of pinging) I understand some explorer motors have an "internal egr" and apparently the fox 5.0s do too. What is this? Can an internal egr be run in our 94-95s? If so, that would save the engine bay clutter, which would be cool. What years of explorer 5.0s would have heads and intakes compatible with our stangs?

2. If I got a performance catted H pipe, would these cats need the AIR pump? I think it was just ford's stock cats that needed the pump, but I just want to confirm that so I dont delete the pump and then foul my new cats shortly after (As much as I want an OR-H, i have to pass emissions.. although I might decide to just get an OR and then swap the stocker in for the sniffer test) I would like to delete the AIR system if possible.

3. If I retain the stock HO cam, should I use 1.7 roller rockers? Also, would I benefit from degreeing the cam?

4. Grady posted a chart awhile back with some dyno numbers of combos using gt40ps, explorer intakes, and stock HO cams. Could someone tell me where to find this? Also, what kind of power can I expect from this combo (I recall seeing some numbers that looked quite good.. again my combo will be CAI and K&N, explorer upper and lower, gt40p heads, stock HO cam with 1.7s, P specific shorties, high flow H, flowmaster catback, tune)

5. I drive the majority of the time in town, but I dont want my highway mpg to go down the drain.. what would be a good set of gears to compromise between pep and mpg? (im thinking 3.55)

6. Any idea if gas mileage will decrease/increase/remain the same? I heard rumours that because the gt40ps are optimized for a clean burn, efficiency actually goes up.. is this true?

7. With the exception of valve springs, can I just bolt on gt40ps to my 5.0? can I use stock pushrods?

8. Does anyone know a good tuner in the Vancouver, Canada area?

9. Im tempted to just put nitrous on the car and call it a day, but I know ill be happier with this combo (and it will be safer). Please talk me out of the nitrous

DDSTANG94 · Dec 17, 2007

9. Im tempted to just put nitrous on the car and call it a day, but I know ill be happier with this combo (and it will be safer). Please talk me out of the nitrous [/QUOTE]

nitrous is limited to how long the bottle lasts, h/c/i is there as long as there is gas in the tank...

unless ur on a real tight budget, which i understand if u are, u might want to think about an aftermarket h/c/i. some put out pretty good numbers with the oem GT40 combos, OTHERS DONT. And remember not to put to much money into things like reconditioning of the heads, some end up puting as much $ into oem iron heads as they could of spent on some aftermarket aluminum heads...be careful..

As far as the stock cam goes, its like i said before some make good power with it, others dont. I know some retarded the timing on the stock cam 2* to make some upper rpm power, but my theory is, if ur gonna go to all the effort to get to the timing cain to retard the cam, u might as well just find a used cam for cheap, or go with something like the tfs 1, its really cheap and better than the stock cam..

GOOD LUCK MAN!!

final5-0 · Dec 17, 2007

dstang01 said:
In the new year I want to take the plunge and do some power mods. Ive decided on a explorer setup (upper and lower intake with gt40p heads, stock HO cam maybe with some 1.7s) Ive done my research, but theres a few things I still have to pick your guys' brains about. Thanks in advance for the help, i know there are alot of questions :

1. I've done some research on the EGR, and Ive decided that it would be in my best interest to keep it (lower combustion temps, gotta pass emissions, better fuel economy, lower risk of pinging) I understand some explorer motors have an "internal egr" and apparently the fox 5.0s do too. What is this? Can an internal egr be run in our 94-95s? If so, that would save the engine bay clutter, which would be cool. What years of explorer 5.0s would have heads and intakes compatible with our stangs?

The older Fox Stangs had the egr valve inline with the air flow where our Stangs have the valve hanging off the elbow.

2. If I got a performance catted H pipe, would these cats need the AIR pump? I think it was just ford's stock cats that needed the pump, but I just want to confirm that so I dont delete the pump and then foul my new cats shortly after (As much as I want an OR-H, i have to pass emissions.. although I might decide to just get an OR and then swap the stocker in for the sniffer test) I would like to delete the AIR system if possible.

I had a fitting on a Bassani catted shorty x pipe when I ran self ported E7's
and
I have one on my current Mac catted LT h pipe as well

3. If I retain the stock HO cam, should I use 1.7 roller rockers? Also, would I benefit from degreeing the cam?

Sure ... you can run that ratio but don't expect much gain from them
I mean ... its gonna only be like 5 to 7rwhp ... if that much

I'd not see a reason to degree it

Some like retarding it to find more power up high
but
I see that as just shifting the power a bit
and
With combos such as that ... I just don't see the advantage

I mean they not only start to peter out kinda early
and
They just are not very effective at making high end power

4. Grady posted a chart awhile back with some dyno numbers of combos using gt40ps, explorer intakes, and stock HO cams. Could someone tell me where to find this? Also, what kind of power can I expect from this combo (I recall seeing some numbers that looked quite good.. again my combo will be CAI and K&N, explorer upper and lower, gt40p heads, stock HO cam with 1.7s, P specific shorties, high flow H, flowmaster catback, tune)

Hey ... its really close to Christmas
so
My gift to you is to do the search for you

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=722699

5. I drive the majority of the time in town, but I dont want my highway mpg to go down the drain.. what would be a good set of gears to compromise between pep and mpg? (im thinking 3.55)

373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ... 373's ...

Now ... Just to make sure you understand

I feel you ought to use a ratio between 355's and 390's

That is ... If you got a stick trans

6. Any idea if gas mileage will decrease/increase/remain the same? I heard rumours that because the gt40ps are optimized for a clean burn, efficiency actually goes up.. is this true?

Anyone that tells you it will go up or go down
well
They should ... first of all and right off the bat ... tell you ........
It depends upon how you drive it :Word:

But with a ratio of no more than 373's and reasonable highway cruise speeds ....
You won't do all that bad ... Like 20 mpg or more should be possible

Don't expect much around town
cause
I'd bet you'll be no more disciplined than the rest of us
cause
With that new found power ... You just gotta play most of the time

7. With the exception of valve springs, can I just bolt on gt40ps to my 5.0? can I use stock pushrods?

8. Does anyone know a good tuner in the Vancouver, Canada area?

Don't know the answer to these
but
A L W A Y S check for proper length of pr's when building a combo

9. Im tempted to just put nitrous on the car and call it a day, but I know ill be happier with this combo (and it will be safer). Please talk me out of the nitrous

OK here is my attempt to set you thinking straight

DON'T BE A BOTTLE BABY and just ... MAN UP

Be a real man and build yourself a real combo with real hot rod parts :Word:

Grady

Black95GTS · Dec 18, 2007

Grady rocks.

Before I sold the car I wanted to see what it could run... I had whats in the sig and I degreed my stock cam retarded 4 degrees. I'd say it gave about 300 (on the inaccurate stock tach) more RPMs before it fell flat on its face. Is this worth it? Well its pretty much free if you have the tools to degree a cam shaft, which I had. I also had a 4.10 screw so I had no problem getting to the RPM. More gear and more RPM = more average horse power.

Always measure for pushrods. Comp cams makes a great tool for this. There is thread right now that goes into more detail, give that a read.

Adam

final5-0 · Dec 18, 2007

Black95GTS said:
Grady rocks.

Before I sold the car I wanted to see what it could run... I had whats in the sig and I degreed my stock cam retarded 4 degrees. I'd say it gave about 300 (on the inaccurate stock tach) more RPMs before it fell flat on its face. Is this worth it? Well its pretty much free if you have the tools to degree a cam shaft, which I had. I also had a 4.10 screw so I had no problem getting to the RPM. More gear and more RPM = more average horse power.

Always measure for pushrods. Comp cams makes a great tool for this. There is thread right now that goes into more detail, give that a read.

Adam

Adam was quite kind to give a detailed explanation about his findings after he
retarded the stock cam

I do think his info is gonna be so helpful for peeps in the future

One of the things I see on these boards a good bit is ....

Over estimation ... or ... maybe better words would be
Expectations Of Excess when considering various mods

Hey ... I thought that way when I was getting started in this hobby as well

I mean ... Get yourself some pulleys, roller rockers, a larger tb & maf
and
Of course ... You gotta have that catback that is surely gonna give big hp

Before you know it ... You'll be putting down Mucho Power

You'll be able to figure out how to get to the power :Word:
yet
You'll spend M U C H less than all those ... other guys

You say to yourself while saving up or doing each mod one at a time ...

"Its gonna be so great ... I just can't wait"
yet ... after its all said and done ...

You say ... "Where is the power"

Not only can this hobby break your wallet
It can break your heart as well

We need more posts like Adam has done here that is brutally honest so
more peeps can know what to really expect.

You see ... the mod Adam did ... it did do what it was supposed to do
but
The gain was not as large as I suspect most would expect

That is the thing about a good deal of mods on these Stangs

You can spend a lot of money and have a list that includes many mods
but
You may not have appreciably gained much power

I don't wanna make it seem as if ......
You should not go for all the hp you can get
but
Its such a bummer when you keep on doing stuff
and
Keep getting disappointed :Word:

I don't know
Maybe you guys can't see or understand what I'm trying to say

Most likely I say these kinds of things cause I'm older than most of you
but
It would have been so Great
if
I would have had an internet with this kind of valuable info when I was a kid

Again Adam ... thanks for sharing

Grady

Black Stampede · Dec 18, 2007

Hey man, just a little tip. For $110 you can't go wrong with grabbin a Trick Flow Stage one cam. Lil more power and a lil lope to go with it. Other than that think about scouring the classifieds for a better intake than an explorer. Dont get me wrong for the price they make power, but if you search the classifieds you should be able to pick up a nice trick flow or Edelbrock or something similar for a decent price. That way you will avoid having to upgrade later on down the road, which I am sure you will do because lets me honest, most of us on here couldn't be happy with an explorer intake.

Either way, I think gt40p's, a tfs intake, and a tfs stage 1 cam would be a great budget setup. My buddy had this setup and ran a 13.0, which could easily have been a 12.8-9 with better traction. I realize you are trying to go budget, but think a little longer term. This is still a budget build, but better. Good luck!

Oh and yeah, 3.73s ftw. However, if you plan on keeping this setup for a considerable amount of time I would consider 4.10s. That is what my buddy ran with that combo and it ripped. It wasnt too much gear since the combo is mild and paired with drag radials made it a pretty wicked ride. Something to consider. Of course now he a has a turbo and has since gone to 3.27s, but you get the idea. With that combo it would be ideal. Always think long term though. Doing stuff twice or three times sucks.

94fordmustanggt · Dec 18, 2007

FWIW- I average 18 mpg with 3.27's and averaged 20 with 3.73's

Stanger007 · Dec 18, 2007

Here's another bee in your bonnet, get a supercharger kit and get it tuned safe.

You'll keep all the manners and mileage you are used to and go faster than the h/c/i guys. If I had to do it all over again, I'd keep the engine stock and start with a blower.

If you find that isn't enough power, add some heads and a cam down the road and go big... food for thought...

Wes

AznStanger3v · Dec 18, 2007

final5-0 said:
DON'T BE A BOTTLE BABY and just ... MAN UP

Grady

ouch Grady, some of us "bottle babies" enjoy it!

nothing like driving in a nitrous car and it hits you like a baseball bat to the chest

dstang01 · Dec 18, 2007

great replies guys, really insightful... but what else could I expect from the best

Grady, I understand exactly what you were trying to get at with that post.. it is disheartening to loose track of funds in pursuit of power.. then end up with something that doesnt live up to your expectations. This is exactly what Im trying to avoid.. and seeing how my funds are not as plentiful as some of you guys, I really need to.. well.. measure twice and cut once here planning is essential

Black95gts thanks for the first hand experience at degreeing the stocker, I guess Im better off leaving it as is for the time being

Black stampede, I hear the tfs1 is a great cam, and Id definately consider it.. but im really trying to budget here. A cam swap is also quite an undertaking for a young guy like myself, the heads and intake are going to be a cool experience as it is but the cam just seems a bit more daunting also, I know if I were going to do the cam, Id want to replace other things like lifters, pushrods, etc.. id be straying from my budget and goal (keeping stock like mpgs and driveability.. even tho the tfs1 is praised for manners the stocker would still come out on top i think) If the cam were a big restriction, such as the E7s, i wouldnt think twice about replacing it, but since the HO isnt too bad I think Ill just keep it. As for the explorer intake, the only reason Im considering this is because Ive seen a few deals on explorer motors that include the intake and gt40ps for a very resonable price, and thats why Im into it. I have no doubt that the trickflow would be a better choice (as with the cam) but it all comes down to one thing.. the green stuff

Stanger007, Ive really thought about the supercharger route (check out that long thread of mine from a few months ago ) but i think the general consensus was that a h/c/i combo is a more reliable and inexpensive start (blowers do make more power though)

Azn stanger (way to break the stereotype dude ) Im temped by the bottle because of that baseball bat effect.. i love torque. plus this will keep me from being too stupid because power isnt infinite (plus I can turn it off when the weather gets crappy) overall, I think the all motor setup is more solid in the end, but the nitrous would be damn fun (ive looked at local used wet kits, very inexpensive too! .. but i know id go through alot of 40 dollar bottles )

Overall, Im looking to make 250-280 rwhp from my inexpensive reliable combo. When I get older and have more expendable income, Id like to have the 40Ps and intake ported by thumper and tmoss, then have a cam custom ground for a good street application, get a tune, and sit on 300rwhp. More power after that.. blower all sounds pretty good on paper.. keep those opinions comin dudes

final5-0 · Dec 18, 2007

AznStanger3v said:
ouch Grady, some of us "bottle babies" enjoy it!

nothing like driving in a nitrous car and it hits you like a baseball bat to the chest

What else can you expect from an Old Fart :Word:

I mean ... When I was a kid in high school ...
Yes they had school back then

Nobody ... and I mean ... N O B O D Y ... around my area had seen it used

I can see it all just like it was yesterday ............
When all that bottled juice stuff started to show up at our local track

Well ... In its infancy ... Every weekend you saw stuff like ........

Hoods being blown off and going high in the air
Motor parts being scattered all over the track
Loud pops and huge fire balls all around the front of the car

Hey ...That stuff was just .... Plain Ole SCARY
and
It broke ANYTHING it came close to

anyway

I know it is more reliable these days

Those who want to run it are just fine in my book

I guess I do fit the Old Man Stereotype of ......
Build Horse Power the traditional, old fashioned way with Hot Rod Parts

Hey ... I have stated publicly on more than one occasion
I got a hankerin for one of them Zilla Dilla KB's

So ... Its not like I'm an .....
Old Dog that CAN'T learn a new trick or two

Grady

Black95GTS · Dec 19, 2007

dstang01 said:
great replies guys, really insightful... but what else could I expect from the best

Grady, I understand exactly what you were trying to get at with that post.. it is disheartening to loose track of funds in pursuit of power.. then end up with something that doesnt live up to your expectations. This is exactly what Im trying to avoid.. and seeing how my funds are not as plentiful as some of you guys, I really need to.. well.. measure twice and cut once here planning is essential

Black95gts thanks for the first hand experience at degreeing the stocker, I guess Im better off leaving it as is for the time being

Black stampede, I hear the tfs1 is a great cam, and Id definately consider it.. but im really trying to budget here. A cam swap is also quite an undertaking for a young guy like myself, the heads and intake are going to be a cool experience as it is but the cam just seems a bit more daunting also, I know if I were going to do the cam, Id want to replace other things like lifters, pushrods, etc.. id be straying from my budget and goal (keeping stock like mpgs and driveability.. even tho the tfs1 is praised for manners the stocker would still come out on top i think) If the cam were a big restriction, such as the E7s, i wouldnt think twice about replacing it, but since the HO isnt too bad I think Ill just keep it. As for the explorer intake, the only reason Im considering this is because Ive seen a few deals on explorer motors that include the intake and gt40ps for a very resonable price, and thats why Im into it. I have no doubt that the trickflow would be a better choice (as with the cam) but it all comes down to one thing.. the green stuff

Stanger007, Ive really thought about the supercharger route (check out that long thread of mine from a few months ago ) but i think the general consensus was that a h/c/i combo is a more reliable and inexpensive start (blowers do make more power though)

Azn stanger (way to break the stereotype dude ) Im temped by the bottle because of that baseball bat effect.. i love torque. plus this will keep me from being too stupid because power isnt infinite (plus I can turn it off when the weather gets crappy) overall, I think the all motor setup is more solid in the end, but the nitrous would be damn fun (ive looked at local used wet kits, very inexpensive too! .. but i know id go through alot of 40 dollar bottles )

Overall, Im looking to make 250-280 rwhp from my inexpensive reliable combo. When I get older and have more expendable income, Id like to have the 40Ps and intake ported by thumper and tmoss, then have a cam custom ground for a good street application, get a tune, and sit on 300rwhp. More power after that.. blower all sounds pretty good on paper.. keep those opinions comin dudes

Let me say that if I did the heads, I would definitely do a camshaft,. You might as well once the heads are off. This is also the time to put headers on.

And if I did heads, and intake, and gears, I would most definitely retard the stock cam if I didn't want to replace it. You can take a stock camshaft deep into the 12s if everything else is working together.

Adam

Methodical · Dec 19, 2007

final5-0 said:
...OK here is my attempt to set you thinking straight

DON'T BE A BOTTLE BABY and just ... MAN UP

Be a real man and build yourself a real combo with real hot rod parts :Word:

Grady

Manu up and then become a bottle baby

By the way, what's your budget?

AznStanger3v · Dec 19, 2007

dstang- yeah dude, I definently feel yas on the keeping it all motor. But just remember, times have changed. Those Fast and the Furious "he's got enough 'nos' to blow us all up" days are over. A 100 shot of the stuff, done correctly mind you, is super safe. *if you ever decide to come to the dark side, just remember 3000 and 3rd. 3000 rpm and 3rd gear is the safest time to hit the juice. WOT switchs, window switches, bottle heaters and openers add up, but are worth its weight in gold. my 06 GT runs like a raped ape with 10 bottles gone through her. No noises and the weekly checks i do show positive results. but onto the HCI NA combo:

I know these guys are trying to give you the best advice. I've noticed a lot of comments that aren't specified to your situation. You situation, from what *I* gather is that you are low on dough. I personally don't think you are "obligated", so to speak, to change the cam right now. It will add up so fast when you start putting all the little extras in. I say change as little as possible. But then again, I'm still trying to sell you on the giggle gas. Good luck with the whip, fella.

VibrantRedGT · Dec 19, 2007

I have my old combo sitting around if you want it. Many of you members remember the GT40X, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake (has the red painted center section and polished) with BBK 70MM TB, Crower Cam and 1.6 Scorpion Rockers set-up which ran 13.2 at 106+MPH on street tires. Well I sold the Crower cam but have a TFS Stage I in Roger's garage. Even have a brand new FRPP double roller timing chain. I can make you one hell of a deal on all of it.

Like mentioned above a minimum of 3:73's is mandatory. If I had to do it all over again I would even go 4:10's. Oh and you can get Long Tube headers, shorty H with high flow cats and still pass emissions. Probably the most aggressive exhaust system you can get with emission testing.

Here is the old combo.

dstang01 · Dec 19, 2007

Im still considering nitrous quite seriously, I mean there was a used zex kit that sold in my area for $450, it included the wet kit (with 75-125 jets), a purge kit and a bottle heater. All I would need to make it super safe would be a window switch, and maybe some colder plugs (i still dont know if the plugs are a necessity or not). 100 hp at the flick of a switch does sound great.. but what really gets me is the torque increase. decisions decisions..

dstang01 · Dec 19, 2007

VibrantRedGT said:
I have my old combo sitting around if you want it. Many of you members remember the GT40X, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake (has the red painted center section and polished) with BBK 70MM TB, Crower Cam and 1.6 Scorpion Rockers set-up which ran 13.2 at 106+MPH on street tires. Well I sold the Crower cam but have a TFS Stage I in Roger's garage. Even have a brand new FRPP double roller timing chain. I can make you one hell of a deal on all of it.

Like mentioned above a minimum of 3:73's is mandatory. If I had to do it all over again I would even go 4:10's. Oh and you can get Long Tube headers, shorty H with high flow cats and still pass emissions. Probably the most aggressive exhaust system you can get with emission testing.

Here is the old combo.

beautiful the gt40X's are the aluminum castings too arent they? Id definately be interested in this (providing shipping isnt too bad.. seeing as youre in florida and im in vancouver ) GT40X, Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake, BBK 70MM TB, TFS1 cam, 1.6 Scorpion Rockers and the FRPP timing chain.. sounds like a killer setup. shoot me a PM with a ballpark price when you get the chance.

94mustangcobra · Dec 19, 2007

i run a zex 125 dry shot on 93 octane to put me into low 12s with stock gt40 heads and a stock cobra intake, the bottom end is where my setup is different. my car is SCT tuned to pull 2 degrees out across the board but i spray outta the hole on a king cobra clutch, stock 130K+ 5 speed and stock 28 spline diff with 3.73 gears finally twisting stock axles bolted to 26x11.5x15 MT ET Streets on 15x7 V6 rims. Now to be honest I'm expecting a weak link to make itself known soon. my nitrous shot was only worth 65 rwhp ???? but good for an extra 110 rwtq on a dynojet. the gas is ok except for filling the bottle, like $4 a pound where i live, and you don't always have it with you, it's illegal to have a connected system where i live. but it is the best bang for your buck, i pick up 8 tenths and 8 mph in a 3500 lb car w/driver in the 1/4.

dstang01 · Dec 23, 2007

some horrible news.. just in time for the holidays

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?p=7270681

looks like some nice goodies will be the last on my list now..

Calling all techies, building a street h/c/i combo

dstang01

Member

DDSTANG94

New Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

Black95GTS

Active Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

Black Stampede

94fordmustanggt

New Member

Stanger007

AznStanger3v

Active Member

dstang01

Member

final5-0

Mustang Master

Black95GTS

Active Member

Methodical

AznStanger3v

Active Member

VibrantRedGT

"STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"

Attachments

dstang01

Member

dstang01

Member

Attachments

94mustangcobra

Member

dstang01

Member

Similar threads

Calling all techies, building a street h/c/i combo

Member

New Member

Mustang Master

Active Member

Mustang Master

New Member

Active Member

Member

Mustang Master

Active Member

Active Member

"STANGNET'S PENGUIN SMACKER"

Attachments

Member

Member

Attachments

Member

Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency