cam choices. best for n/a 2v?

fiveoho · Nov 16, 2010

this probably should be in the tech section but id rather it stay here if possible. i think i will recieve more responses.

just kicking around the idea of doing cams in my 2000. the main thing holding me back is the money involved in this but im hoping to some of your replies will prove me wrong. the car is stock minus o/r x pipe, mufflers, air filter and a diablosport. ive been looking at the CMS stage 1's and the hitech stage 1's . the specs are fairly close. the lobe separation is different. both companies claim that a tune is not required and neither is valve springs. i do know that valve springs would probably take full advantage of the cams and im sure a tune would. i'm not looking to make crazy power. i wouldnt expect anything close to 300whp with either of those given my current mods and no tune. i DO want a choppy idle and some noticeable gains. stage 2's would give me the idle i am after for sure but i know they require springs and a tune. fwiw, i have listened to several youtube clips with various stage 1's cams and some are pretty choppy sounding, especially with the right exhaust.
there are others out there that i havent researched as much....trickflow, comp.

how big a deal is it to swap cams, really? i can't. i know a few people that can and are very capable. how labor intensive is it and have any of you had any quotes for a install?

give me some feedback on cost, driveability, sound, idle characteristics, brand, etc.

thanks in advance.

fiveoho · Nov 16, 2010

basically here is what i want-

-cams that require no other supporting parts
-choppy idle
-decent gains. dont expect anything crazy.
-no dynotune required

im not sure if i can achieve what i want after tho.

does diablosport offer tunes that can be uploaded to the tuner specifically for cam swaps?

Three50won · Nov 16, 2010

I personally like Comp Cams. I used some stage 2s on a High compression 4.6 and I was more than happy with the results. I don't know how much experience you have or how comfortable you are with doing your own work but if you have the time and another car to use I'd say give it a shot yourself. If it gets to be too much you can always just put back everything you took apart and take it to a shop. I haven't seen any shops other than speed shops in my area that will do a cam swap. One speed shop quoted me $900. I been doing my own work since then...

N8Dogg98 · Nov 16, 2010

Cams are relatively easy to install in a 2V and you don't have to remove the front engine cover if you have an assistant who can hold the gears while you swap cams. Installed PI cams in my '98 and it took me about 3 hours (my brother held the cam gears with a vice grips).

I'd give Nick McKinney at MHS a call. Explain to him exactly what you want in a cam and he'll point you in the right direction

Three50won · Nov 16, 2010

True, if no assistant is available then the Anderson cam swap tool might be of great use for holding the gears. You might still need an extra set of hands at some point...

Deleted member 38176 · Nov 16, 2010

HTM Stg. II's

fiveoho · Nov 16, 2010

Three50won said:
I personally like Comp Cams. I used some stage 2s on a High compression 4.6 and I was more than happy with the results. I don't know how much experience you have or how comfortable you are with doing your own work but if you have the time and another car to use I'd say give it a shot yourself. If it gets to be too much you can always just put back everything you took apart and take it to a shop. I haven't seen any shops other than speed shops in my area that will do a cam swap. One speed shop quoted me $900. I been doing my own work since then...

ive checked out a few comp cams. i think maybe the 262's are pretty mild. not sure about the 270s?

$900

fiveoho · Nov 16, 2010

N8Dogg98 said:
Cams are relatively easy to install in a 2V and you don't have to remove the front engine cover if you have an assistant who can hold the gears while you swap cams. Installed PI cams in my '98 and it took me about 3 hours (my brother held the cam gears with a vice grips).

I'd give Nick McKinney at MHS a call. Explain to him exactly what you want in a cam and he'll point you in the right direction

you arent the 1st person thats told me that they arent too bad to install. actually, some people word it 'easy'

i called nick and left him a message. ill see what he has to say.

i wouldnt buy a cam purely based on sound but i have to say of all the CMS stage 1 clips ive listened to, it has a very nice lope

fiveoho · Nov 16, 2010

Nightfire said:
HTM Stg. II's

i hear these are about the only "Stage II's" you can do and not have PTV issues. although reading some other forums and such, some guys say yes and some say no

these would require springs, right?

Sonic04GT · Nov 16, 2010

I have been wanting the Hi-Tech Stage IIs myself after hearing good stuff about them but I was quoted about $600 in labor, same price as the cams themselves.

Deleted member 38176 · Nov 16, 2010

fiveoho said:
i hear these are about the only "Stage II's" you can do and not have PTV issues. although reading some other forums and such, some guys say yes and some say no

these would require springs, right?

Springs aren't required with the hi techs. As far as PTV issues, as long as you have them properly degree'd then there shouldn't be any problems. There are a few members here with the HTM II's and have had absolutely no issues.

Deleted member 38176 · Nov 16, 2010

Sonic04GT said:
I have been wanting the Hi-Tech Stage IIs myself after hearing good stuff about them but I was quoted about $600 in labor, same price as the cams themselves.

I was quated $600 as well for a basic install, $900 including degreeing

ninjastang125 · Nov 16, 2010

I'm a fan of CMS cams. I ran their stage 1s and loved them. I picked up 3 mph in the 1/4 mile and knocked off 3 almost 4 tenths of a second off of my et. Bill putnam ran CMS stage 1s as well and ran a 11 sec na pass! People like hitechs and they put down decent numbers but I have not seen any 1/4 times other then one guy who's car was LIGHT and he ran a 12.1 I believe.

Dark04GT · Nov 16, 2010

Getting hitech stage II's installed this weekend on my stang. Getting a basic tune from the guy installing them- then a dyno tune in Jan. Talked with hitech over the phone- they say you don't need springs with these cams unless you have a high mileage motor (~150k+) or you plan on running over 6400rpm. No PTV issues as long as they are degreed.

Other stage II's from what I have heard need springs. I would take a look at the hitech stage II's considering all the things you are looking for.

txredgt · Nov 16, 2010

Dark04GT said:
Getting hitech stage II's installed this weekend on my stang. Getting a basic tune from the guy installing them- then a dyno tune in Jan. Talked with hitech over the phone- they say you don't need springs with these cams unless you have a high mileage motor (~150k+) or you plan on running over 6400rpm. No PTV issues as long as they are degreed.

Other stage II's from what I have heard need springs. I would take a look at the hitech stage II's considering all the things you are looking for.

Where do you go to in SA dark? Ive seen you on a more local forum but the installers don't get on this site and I hate talking about one of them when they all frequent it and can see what we say.

BurningRubber · Nov 16, 2010

fiveoho said:
basically here is what i want-

-cams that require no other supporting parts
-choppy idle
-decent gains. dont expect anything crazy.
-no dynotune required

im not sure if i can achieve what i want after tho.

does diablosport offer tunes that can be uploaded to the tuner specifically for cam swaps?

Cams will benefit most when you have longtube headers as well.

Choppy idle is hard to come by with smaller cams, aka cams that don't require spring upgrades. CMS 1's do not have a choppy idle, Hitech II's aren't much more agressive. On some cars they sound a little more pronounced, others you can't tell they're there. Exhaust plays a factor.

With a small cam your probably going to get the most gains from power under the curve rather than peak increases. These are important gains, but won't show a big jump in peak HP.

Not tuning for the cams is kind of a waste. You won't get the full potential and you could run into driveability issues, or idle issues at the least. You may find the car is running lean after the install as well.

I would personally keep saving and do it once, and do it right. Get a more aggressive cam that will still leave acceptable PTV clearance, swap the springs, have the cams degreed to avoid PTV issues and to extract the most out of the cams, and have the car tuned after.

midnightdriver · Nov 17, 2010

First aren't the 2000 windsor blocks and heads, so you might need new cam gears?

Also, how do you degree the cam with the stock cam gears? I thought they could be off like +/- a couple of degrees?

BurningRubber · Nov 17, 2010

midnightdriver said:
First aren't the 2000 windsor blocks and heads, so you might need new cam gears?

Also, how do you degree the cam with the stock cam gears? I thought they could be off like +/- a couple of degrees?

Yes, Windsors used pressed on, not bolt on gears.

You can grind out the keyway on the stock gears to give room for adjustment. Or, you could buy a quality set of adjustable gears.

fiveoho · Nov 17, 2010

BurningRubber said:
Cams will benefit most when you have longtube headers as well.

Choppy idle is hard to come by with smaller cams, aka cams that don't require spring upgrades. CMS 1's do not have a choppy idle, Hitech II's aren't much more agressive. On some cars they sound a little more pronounced, others you can't tell they're there. Exhaust plays a factor.

With a small cam your probably going to get the most gains from power under the curve rather than peak increases. These are important gains, but won't show a big jump in peak HP.

Not tuning for the cams is kind of a waste. You won't get the full potential and you could run into driveability issues, or idle issues at the least. You may find the car is running lean after the install as well.

I would personally keep saving and do it once, and do it right. Get a more aggressive cam that will still leave acceptable PTV clearance, swap the springs, have the cams degreed to avoid PTV issues and to extract the most out of the cams, and have the car tuned after.

didnt notice it till you quoted me but my grammar is horrible

i agree with everything you said. i pretty much knew i wouldn't reap the full benefits w/o a tune but i still wouldnt mind doing stage 1's and the car can always been tuned at a later date. long tubes i hear are a definite help with the 2v's but i'd rather not spend the money on a set of them or to have them installed, along with a different x pipe. i guess it is a matter of opinion of whats choppy and whats not. certainly larger more aggressive cams hit harder but honestly, alot of cms/vt 1 clips i have listened to are fairly choppy, imo. enough to suit me as far as the sound would go. however, like you said a car with tame mufflers make it alot harder to hear the lope.

any thoughts in the hi tech 2's? lots of people, along with nightfire, claim they will work with stock springs and no ptv issues provided they are degree'd

N8Dogg98 · Nov 17, 2010

The Hitech II's don't provide much PTV clearance, so it is imperative they are properly degreed. IIRC the Hitech stage II's only have about 0.001" of clearance when degreed properly.

cam choices. best for n/a 2v?

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