Can't advance timing! Hits t-stat housing?

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

well i finally went and sprung some dough for a timing light. I now have it advanced to about 18*, and i have no signs of knocking yet. this already seems too high from what i've heard. is something wrong here? i pulled the spout (little grey clip just off the main plug to the distributor, right?), turned it clockwise and it seemed to smooth things out a bit. but i cant turn it any more.... the plug into the distributor is now touching my water neck, and can't go any further. even if i could fix that, the distributor itself has an 'ear' on it that is nearly touching too. any ideas of whats wrong here?

JChalfan · Mar 19, 2007

Most people only run 14 degrees. Even if you're not pinging at 18 degrees, I'd still back it off to 14.

It sounds like you're doing everything right. That little grey plug is the spout.

Is your timing light an "advance" style? If so, it would have a dial on the back, or some digital controls. If so, make sure it is zeroed out.

It's possible your balancer has spun, and the timing marks are off, but that's not really likely.

When you have it set at 14 degrees (or 18 for that matter), how does it run? Smooth? Does it accelerate good?

BK_CAULEY · Mar 19, 2007

you might be a tooth off

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

my light is just a plain cheap one, just a trigger on it. It runs better than before advancing it. When i back it of to about 10, it gets a little lopey, less than 10* and it starts wanting to die out. Its near 18* now, and seems to run good. no noises, and pulls a little bit better. i'm only running 87 octane too.....
i had the engine rebuilt about a year ago.... could something with that be the problem? does the distributor only fit one way? #1 wire on the distributor is at about 1 o'clock if you're standing right in front of the car.... i'll go take some pics right now.....

blackened88lx · Mar 19, 2007

There's no way that thing's not pinging if it's actually at 18* with 87 in it.

Mustang5L5 · Mar 19, 2007

Yup, if you have 87 octane your engine should sound like a can of bb's shaking

Flavadave4 · Mar 19, 2007

your dizzy is stabbed a tooth off

v8only · Mar 19, 2007

he probably just can't hear it pinging...even with just flowmasters and headers my car is too loud to hear pinging.

HISSIN50 · Mar 19, 2007

There might be some other issue if it started to feel rough at near 10*. The idle should have gotten lower but that's about all.

You can make sure your balancer is in good shape and properly indexed.

If your timing light has a dial-back, ensure it's zeroed out.

Good luck.

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

ok well this is a pic of what i'm dealing with. the plug is hitting the rad hose, and the distributor is VERY close to hitting the water neck.... how can i fix this? how far off is my timing from the 'actual' *? as for the exhaust, it is NOT loud. i don't have flowmasters as someone had suggested before, and my LT's actually quieted things down a lot! very quiet! (need to fix that ASAP!!!!)
oh - it ran ok at 10* but once i started going below that, the idle slowed, and became lopey. it would not start at about 4* also, if that means anything... but it would run if i turned it that far while running.

TheBocSez · Mar 19, 2007

Some one please explain to me how you can be a tooth off?

As long as the #1 cyl is at TDC on the compression stroke, when you put the distributor in, it
can point ANYWHERE you want it to as long as you place the sparkplug wires in the correct firing order.

Put #1 piston at TDC.

Stab distributor in.

Line up center of rotor with spark plug terminal that you designate as the #1 terminal

Place wires in proper firing order.

Advance slightly.

Start it up and set timing.

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

so can anyone tell me what is wrong here? does the picture help? am i really at 18* or is something not right?

Nibbie · Mar 19, 2007

Wow, I would put my distribitor housing back to its original position. That seems kinda hard to mess with timing when you have a clearance issue like that.

Skoobie · Mar 19, 2007

TheBocSez is correct. Unbolt your distrubutor, pull it, set your #1 to TDC, and the re-stab your dist. into its "stock" orientation (Pointing to #5-6 pistons). That way you KNOW your not off a tooth. You shouldnt have to twist your dist. that far to get to 18deg. If I had mine twisted that far I would be at 30deg adv. or something rediculous like that. BTW your car is going to run crappy at 4deg anyway. You should never need to go below 9-10deg with an NA motor.

HISSIN50 · Mar 19, 2007

TBS and Skoobie are right (not that I think anyone was insinuating otherwise).
There is simply a space constraint, though he has the car in time.

Re-index things and all should be good.

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

ok... thanks for the help. how do i re-index then? btw i wasn't trying to set it at 4*, just playing around to try and figure out what was going on... not a mechanic but i like to do things myself. Just to be clear, how noticible would the noise be if i had too much advance? i'm sure it's ok, but i'd like to be certain. i think it sounds fine right now... but ive recently put a lot of mods on, so it sounds different all the time...

Flavadave4 · Mar 19, 2007

TheBocSez said:
Some one please explain to me how you can be a tooth off?

As long as the #1 cyl is at TDC on the compression stroke, when you put the distributor in, it
can point ANYWHERE you want it to as long as you place the sparkplug wires in the correct firing order.

Put #1 piston at TDC.

Stab distributor in.

Line up center of rotor with spark plug terminal that you designate as the #1 terminal

Place wires in proper firing order.

Advance slightly.

Start it up and set timing.

I don't mean to say that he selected the wrong tooth, but if you have ever stabbed the dizzy into place you know how it goes down and then turns to the right. If you don't start it far enough over it turns clock wise......leaving you less room to advance the cap.

TheBocSez · Mar 19, 2007

Oh, I see what you are saying. Yes, I know what you mean. I have put my dist in and had that problem. I pulled it back out and re-oriented it just for that reason. (more adjustment room when setting timing)

bloopbloob · Mar 19, 2007

hmmm. i dont follow. never put in a dist. before.... what do i need to do? how do i set #1 to tdc? and then what do i have to do?

Skoobie · Mar 19, 2007

Well Hissin used the term "index" twice and was referring to two different things. When he was referring to your balancer is was saying to making sure your balancer's timing marks were correctly oriented. When the seal on it wears and breaks down the outer half (the part with the timing marks) can rotate causing your marks to be inaccurate. The only way to correct this is to replace the balancer. Typically you can tell if the balancer has gone bad by observing a wobbling motion when the motor is running. If its a nice smooth rotation you probably have nothing to worry about.
As far as "indexing" your distributor all he was saying was to TDC the motor and place the dist. back into the engine so it is oriented is such a way that you can adjust your timing without having to worry about bumping into your water neck. Try pointing the connector twards the #7 Piston when you stab it in. As the gears mesh the distributor will rotate clockwise about another 1/8th of a turn so it points to the #5-#6 piston. This will be your new 10deg mark (roughly) and will give you PLENTY of room for advancment.

Can't advance timing! Hits t-stat housing?

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