Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

Fast GTO · Dec 9, 2004

Car that ran that time was bone stock down to the tires and intake tube.

Obviously a good driver, with good track conditions, and cold weather.

But that isnt' the only proof of GTO's outperforming GT's (key word PERFORMANCE), C&D said the new GTO outperforms the GT and everyday stop light meetings are proving the same for 04 GTO's v GT's.

one2gamble · Dec 9, 2004

royb said:
and for the record gto are sports cars in every way for the members that don't believe it they need to go drive one. This is comming from a 05 Mustang GT owner and former owner of:
.

do sports cars have back seats? I am not so sure....you could argue the 911 has one but does it really?

Just because one car ran low 13's doesnt mean every GTO can run low 13's. Everyone knows every LS1 Camaro cant run high 12's yet one did and theres proof. One time slip proves very little for either camp.

Bob Cosby · Dec 9, 2004

Fast GTO said:
But that isnt' the only proof of GTO's outperforming GT's (key word PERFORMANCE), C&D said the new GTO outperforms the GT and everyday stop light meetings are proving the same for 04 GTO's v GT's.

I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. While I think the GTO might have a slight advantage overall (though it is way too early to decide this, as the GTs have only been out a tenth of the time the GTO has), it is very slight, and a 04 GTO vs 05 GT is going to be very, very close - easily decided by the driver.

fivepointNO · Dec 9, 2004

Fast GTO said:
Car that ran that time was bone stock down to the tires and intake tube.

Obviously a good driver, with good track conditions, and cold weather.

But that isnt' the only proof of GTO's outperforming GT's (key word PERFORMANCE), C&D said the new GTO outperforms the GT and everyday stop light meetings are proving the same for 04 GTO's v GT's.

Again, it doesn't matter that ONE ran 13.18! It's the ONLY one we know of, and it's the only one I've heard of which ran even 13.25 when factory stock. We're not even wasting time to argue whether or not it's really stock... Because we just don't care.

C&D said the 2005 GTO performs better in many ways.

The same was not said(or proved) of the 2004 model, as we already know it's not as quick as the '05. In order to be a "stop light racer"(which is stupid) ahead of the 2005 MustangGT, it would need to be as quick as the '05 and it isn't. The Mustang has been out for mere weeks. Most GTO owners haven't even raced one yet, and visa versa. Most who have aren't running stock anymore. It's a waste of time to even discuss it at this point. This time next year would be better. Of course, all the GTO talk will be about the '05 though, as it's much quicker than the '04 model.

thehemi · Dec 9, 2004

one2gamble said:
do sports cars have back seats? I am not so sure....you could argue the 911 has one but does it really?

I've seen a babyseat in the back of a 911.
Graduated from sports car to family hauler.

thehemi · Dec 9, 2004

one2gamble said:
Just because one car ran low 13's doesnt mean every GTO can run low 13's.

So the 13.2 GTO time is tossed and the 13.4 GT time is tossed. Right?

GTP2GTO · Dec 9, 2004

Bob Cosby said:
Speaking of which, may I ask what other sites you post on and what screen name you use?

Thanks.

I dont post on any other sites. I am fairly new to the whole online car forum discussions. My last job kept me traveling a lot and I didnt have time to goof around on the internet. I just the other day created a screename on FBODY.com so that I could inquire about a statement the cobraguy on here made about LT1s being 14sec cars and the SS/WS6 being faster. Seems they arent any faster.

mAdHaTtR · Dec 9, 2004

i've been a fan of the Mustangs since i was 14 when my parents gave me a '65 coupe. even though the Camaros put up bettr #s before they were discontinued, i love the heritage the Mustangs have. ever since i got rid of my '65, i've been wanting to get another Mustang and the '05s seem to be the one i want. i don't care about the out performance of the GTO, i like the styling of the Mustangs and Ford done well with this redesign. the GTO might be bettr, but it's not a Mustang.

Fast GTO · Dec 9, 2004

fivepointNO said:
Again, it doesn't matter that ONE ran 13.18! It's the ONLY one we know of, and it's the only one I've heard of which ran even 13.25 when factory stock. We're not even wasting time to argue whether or not it's really stock... Because we just don't care.

C&D said the 2005 GTO performs better in many ways.

The same was not said(or proved) of the 2004 model, as we already know it's not as quick as the '05. In order to be a "stop light racer"(which is stupid) ahead of the 2005 MustangGT, it would need to be as quick as the '05 and it isn't. The Mustang has been out for mere weeks. Most GTO owners haven't even raced one yet, and visa versa. Most who have aren't running stock anymore. It's a waste of time to even discuss it at this point. This time next year would be better. Of course, all the GTO talk will be about the '05 though, as it's much quicker than the '04 model.

I don't want to offend you but I am going to have to call you ignorant. The 05 GT's are only a match for the 04 GTO's, the 05 GTO blows the 05 GT away as far as performance.

In fact, pontiac is claiming a 4.6s 0-60 on their website for the A4.

And to say that 05 GT's are quicker than 04 GTO's is also ignorant, namely because the real world outside your computer room is telling a different story. While the GT seems to pull great off the line it loses a lot higher up which is where the GTO is winning, and winning before the 1/4th is over.

So basically your support for the Mustang boils down to one factor, "gotta have it", I won't call it a BS factor, but it is a preference factor, which you are entitled to.

In my book the GTO gets the "gotta have it points", but then we aren't the same person.

Enjoy your GT and I'll enjoy my GTO.

Fast GTO · Dec 9, 2004

Bob Cosby said:
I'm going to disagree with you a bit here. While I think the GTO might have a slight advantage overall (though it is way too early to decide this, as the GTs have only been out a tenth of the time the GTO has), it is very slight, and a 04 GTO vs 05 GT is going to be very, very close - easily decided by the driver.

So where do we disagree? The 05 GTO flat out-performs the 05 GT, almost a different class of performance, but like you said, the 04 GTO v 05 GT is a drivers race.

The point I have been making, as well as the other GTO owners, is not that the Ford sucks, but that the GTO doesn't suck like the Ford fanboys are saying.

Doc GTO · Dec 9, 2004

I think we are beating a dead horse here

Just remember: magazines don't win races - see you at the track!!!

new22003 · Dec 9, 2004

I laughed my ass off when car and driver called the GTO "The Blunder from Down Under".

iviustang50h · Dec 9, 2004

Fast GTO said:
Car that ran that time was bone stock down to the tires and intake tube.

Obviously a good driver, with good track conditions, and cold weather.

But that isnt' the only proof of GTO's outperforming GT's (key word PERFORMANCE), C&D said the new GTO outperforms the GT and everyday stop light meetings are proving the same for 04 GTO's v GT's.

I never said anything about the Mustang outperforming the GTO, so NO, you didn't own me (all you own is your crappy GTO). All I said was I don't believe that the car was stock, and I am still not convinced. You have to understand that this is an internet formum where people make crap up all the time. When it comes to something like this for me, it's prove it or I don't believe it. What do you care anyway? I was simply stating my opinion. If it's true, then good for you, that's amaizing driving. But I am not convinced. So if you care that much, prove it. If you don't then oh well.

And as far as the GTO beating the GT off the line at the stoplights, just pull up next to a cobra and we'll see what happens. Also, the new cobra is rumored to have 500 HP. You most likely don't care about any of this and you shouldn't because this ISN'T a GM FORUM! Go where you are wanted and quick being a trolling whore! (This does not apply to DocGTO as he isn't a bastard).

one2gamble · Dec 9, 2004

thehemi said:
So the 13.2 GTO time is tossed and the 13.4 GT time is tossed. Right?

like the rest of the post says, one time slip doesnt do anything for either camp.

GTPDan · Dec 9, 2004

It amazes me how all this can be stirred up by one article. Especially an article in an assrag like C&D. Magazine reviews are not subjective and never have been. Whoever pays the most money wins. Its just that simple. People act like something written in a magazine must be correct. I have news for you , they make more mistakes than the average person. The automotive weekly article about GM having 168 days of GTOs in inventory is an excellant example. They are just plain wrong. That article assumes that they produced 18K GTOs for 2004. They didnt. 18K was the agreed maximum amout to be produced between GM and Holden. Holden still has to make their own cars too. Obviously final numbers arent yet known but with the sales figures it will end up being somewhere around 12K-13K units. Well over 10K have been sold already, sure doesnt sound like 168 days worth of inventory, does it? Everyone seems to make the GTO sales such a negative thing. Comparing the sales of the GTO to the Mustang is just ignorant. You are seriously comparing the sales of a limited production car to a mass produced car that Ford will probably pump out 200K of? Thats the kind of thinking people earn Darwin awards for... I for one couldnt be happier that I drive a car that there wil lonly be about 12K of. You like the coolness factor of having a new Mustang now, but will that feeling still be there when there is a couple hundred thousand of them rolling around? Time will tell.

CatmanJJ · Dec 9, 2004

GTPDan said:
You like the coolness factor of having a new Mustang now, but will that feeling still be there when there is a couple hundred thousand of them rolling around? Time will tell.

Well there have been what a couple million sold overall since what '64, I still think they are cool. Probably everyone else who owns one does too. Just because it's unique or limited doesn't mean it's necessarily cool to everyone. It's really more of an eye of the beholder thing, but hey this is a Mustang site so of course we're gonna like our cars moreso then we do anything else, just like any other model specific board u visit or post on.

GTP2GTO · Dec 9, 2004

This thread is like the energizer bunny....

It keeps goin, and going, and goin

And then?
And then?
And then?

CatmanJJ · Dec 9, 2004

NO MORE AND THEN!!

new22003 · Dec 9, 2004

Is the GTO a good performer.....Yes
Is it refined......Yes
Is it a good value for what you get.....Yes
Is the Small Block Chevy a great engine.......Yes
Is the interior great.....Yes

Does all this matter to most people when you package it in an ugly wrapper....No

Most people don’t want to pay $33,000 for a car that looks like a $15,000 family car.

I really wish GM would have given the GTO a great looking body. It’s silly to even try and argue that the car is acceptable in the styling area. I hope, really I do, that GM will fix the GTO styling in 2007/2008 so this car doesn’t go out of production. When you can’t even sell half of your target in the first year of a sports car with a legendary name then something is VERY wrong. I hope the car lasts long enough to improve before the GM bean counters axe it.

The sales failure of the GTO will hurt anyone interested in the American performance scene. The death of the Camaro/Firebird was a bad thing for Mustang owners also as competition makes the car better.

GM has to learn you can’t just throw horsepower at a car to fix its slow sales, you would think they would have taken a lesson from the Camaro/Firebird. The F body was almost always a better performing car than the Mustang but the mustang outsold the combined sales of the Camaro+Firebird+Trans Am almost 2 to 1.

Gm gives it 50 more horsepower trying to boost sales but the only gripe in a magazine or review of the car is its styling, that’s poor GM logic ruining an otherwise great car.

If they put a kick arse or even decent body on the GTO I would consider purchasing one.

I don’t hate the GTO, I hate it for the way GM executed it. They got everything right but the biggest point in the sport coupe segment…styling. You can try and argue that point all you want but 99% of the public seems to feel this way, and the extremely slow sales and heavy discounts bare this out. I know some of you will try and argue this point but please be realistic, why else is the GTO selling so poorly even with its $7000 discount?

Someone needs to start a petition to GM to restyle the GTO completely.

torqueIT · Dec 9, 2004

new22003 said:
Is the GTO a good performer.....Yes
Is it refined......Yes
Is it a good value for what you get.....Yes
Is the Small Block Chevy a great engine.......Yes
Is the interior great.....Yes

Does all this matter to most people when you package it in an ugly wrapper....No

Most people don’t want to pay $33,000 for a car that looks like a $15,000 family car.

I really wish GM would have given the GTO a great looking body. It’s silly to even try and argue that the car is acceptable in the styling area. I hope, really I do, that GM will fix the GTO styling in 2007/2008 so this car doesn’t go out of production. When you can’t even sell half of your target in the first year of a sports car with a legendary name then something is VERY wrong. I hope the car lasts long enough to improve before the GM bean counters axe it.

The sales failure of the GTO will hurt anyone interested in the American performance scene. The death of the Camaro/Firebird was a bad thing for Mustang owners also as competition makes the car better.

GM has to learn you can’t just throw horsepower at a car to fix its slow sales, you would think they would have taken a lesson from the Camaro/Firebird. The F body was almost always a better performing car than the Mustang but the mustang outsold the combined sales of the Camaro+Firebird+Trans Am almost 2 to 1.

Gm gives it 50 more horsepower trying to boost sales but the only gripe in a magazine or review of the car is its styling, that’s poor GM logic ruining an otherwise great car.

If they put a kick arse or even decent body on the GTO I would consider purchasing one.

I don’t hate the GTO, I hate it for the way GM executed it. They got everything right but the biggest point in the sport coupe segment…styling. You can try and argue that point all you want but 99% of the public seems to feel this way, and the extremely slow sales and heavy discounts bare this out. I know some of you will try and argue this point but please be realistic, why else is the GTO selling so poorly even with its $7000 discount?

Someone needs to start a petition to GM to restyle the GTO completely.

You're dead on right in that the styling plays the key role in poor sales for the GTO (for the average joe). Personally its not an issue I share, only because you can spice that up with a nice body kit. The extra horsepower will always play a factor in a purchase of a car meant to tear up the streets. I love the fact that you can now buy the LS2 in a car priced $10,000 less than a Corvette.

There's always room for improvement to be sure (I wished they would've stuck with the tailights from the concept Mustang instead of the ones that it comes with now).

At any rate, for the price, you are still getting a smoking deal for 400hp car. You throw a supercharger on that thing, and you'll easily be approaching 600hp!

That's my rant! The end!

Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

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