GTPDan said:You like the coolness factor of having a new Mustang now, but will that feeling still be there when there is a couple hundred thousand of them rolling around? Time will tell.
new22003 said:Is the GTO a good performer.....Yes
Is it refined......Yes
Is it a good value for what you get.....Yes
Is the Small Block Chevy a great engine.......Yes
Is the interior great.....Yes
Does all this matter to most people when you package it in an ugly wrapper....No
Someone needs to start a petition to GM to restyle the GTO completely.
GTPDan said:Everyone seems to make the GTO sales such a negative thing. Comparing the sales of the GTO to the Mustang is just ignorant. You are seriously comparing the sales of a limited production car to a mass produced car that Ford will probably pump out 200K of? of them rolling around?
What ignorance do you claim? Just because I don't agree with you word for word doesn't mean I'm ignorant, nor that you are not. The '05 GT is a match for the '04 GTO, and then some. It's generally as quick when both are stock, it stops better, it slolams better, it skidpads better. It offers as much as the GTO inside, except in rear seat area. Oh, and it stickers for about seven thousand dollars less(Premium model). A match? Hardly. That's why we're comparing the '05 instead.Fast GTO said:I don't want to offend you but I am going to have to call you ignorant. The 05 GT's are only a match for the 04 GTO's, the 05 GTO blows the 05 GT away as far as performance.
If only I'd actually said that to begin with. I guess it's my ignorance for not realizing you'd take for granted I meant the '04 GTO wasn't as quick as the '05GT instead of what it meant(the '05GTO), by my use of the words "The same was not said about the '04," just after my note of what C&D said of the '05GTO.And to say that 05 GT's are quicker than 04 GTO's is also ignorant, namely because the real world outside your computer room is telling a different story. While the GT seems to pull great off the line it loses a lot higher up which is where the GTO is winning, and winning before the 1/4th is over.
Of course I'm entitled, and as proven by the masses for years, we all are. That's much of why the Mustang has been around since 1964 and the GTO took a 30yr hiatus. My personal position is more along the lines of "haven't gotta have" the GTO than "gotta have" the Mustang. The general opinion is that one car looks much better than the other. Sales figures prove that sentiment. This is largely what "gotta have" boils down to. It's not about which performs best in every known situtation, or about the stereo or leather seats. It's about feeling great merely gazing at the car.So basically your support for the Mustang boils down to one factor, "gotta have it", I won't call it a BS factor, but it is a preference factor, which you are entitled to.
Fast GTO said:the 05 GTO blows the 05 GT away as far as performance.
GTPDan said:Everyone seems to make the GTO sales such a negative thing. Comparing the sales of the GTO to the Mustang is just ignorant.
351CJ said:Right now an '05 GTO won't even blow a Yugo away, because you can't take delivery of one.
TomServo92 said:Yeah, it's so limited production that they have a 167 day inventory stockpiled and they're cutting production by 30% next year. It's amazing to me that someone can shrug off the fact that a limited production, high-performance vehicle can barely sell two-thirds of it's first years production.
BTW, I think most of the GTO owners that post in here are OK but since you come in and start calling people "ignorant", I have one word for you: troll
GTP2GTO said:I believe though that is what we will be seeing with the 07 camaro. A sweet looking, powerful car that has broad appeal and still waxes the stang...
GTPDan said:You obviously didnt read my post. There isnt 167 days worth of inventory, not even close. They also didnt cut production of anything. They never made 18K units. They are just changing the maximun number that will be produced based off the number of cars built for 04. Also about the only places you still see a bunch of GTOs on dealer lots is up north. For some strange reason, they sent about 60-70% of the 04s to northern dealerships where most people who drive a performance car only do so during the summer and drive a beater in the winter. Way to go GMThey have already said that was a mistake and will be changing allocation for the 05. They will be adjusting the ratio of automatics to manuals too since they made way too many automatics. Oh and BTW, if you are a person who thinks the sales figures mean the Mustang is a better car when they will make 15 times more of them, then yes, you are ignorant.
I don't know or care how many they've got available on the dealers lots, but the sales are sluggish, at best. They never made 18,000 units, but they were hoping to come close, or that wouldn't have been the initial number they set forward as their goal. I don't know if they've even sold 12K units for the model year. Indications are they'll sell off whatever number they've built though, thanks to things like $24,000 sale prices. But hey, what's 10 thousand less than sticker price as long as someone buys it, right!GTPDan said:You obviously didnt read my post. There isnt 167 days worth of inventory, not even close. They also didnt cut production of anything. They never made 18K units.
No, they're changing the maximum number to be produced based on the number SOLD, not built, for '04. Let's just face it, Pontiac hoped to sell more 2004 GTO's than they sold and have decided to scale back production for 2005 because of that. Instead of making the car more broadly appealing(body style changes or optional engines), GM has decided to add hp with a bigger engine, and make a few other smaller changes. They've made the approach to the GTO more as if it's a Corvette instead of what it is. I believe Corvette sales actually beat it. The reason isn't pricing alone, and certainly not the drivetrain. And according to several of you GTO owners, it's not a lack of handling or passenger volume... This leaves only a few reasons... BODY STYLE topping that list.They are just changing the maximun number that will be produced based off the number of cars built for 04
TomServo92 said:OK Troll-boy... explain these news stories:
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/wheels/articles/1204wheels04autoreport.html
http://www.gulfweeklyworldwide.com/article.asp?Sn=2093&Article=7182
http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=8862&vf=2&bg=1&pp=1
http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/automotive/stories/MYSA120404.1J.williams.b5326336.html
http://theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,11481104%5E2702,00.html
If you read the stories (you can read, can't you?), they all say production has been cut by 30% for 2005. Be sure to play close attention to the last one where it says at the beginning of November there was a 127-day supply on hand. I've since heard that has grown to around 167 days.
BTW, I never said anything about the Mustang being better because it sold more. By putting words in someone elses mouth to try to prove your point indicates just how ignorant you are!
I also never said the GTO is a bad car either. My opinion is quite the contrary actually. I think it's a very nice performance car that suffers from very bland styling and IMHO is a sales failure because of it.
GTPDan said:And you still arent reading the post. Those articles are basing thier numbers off the assumption that 18 thousand were made for 04. That was the target for the maximum number of units for 04. Nowhere near that many were made so their numbers are wrong. As for the production cut, since they didnt produce 18 thousand what exactly got cut? GM is just saying that they will no longer use 18 thousand as their target maximum but are reducing that number to 12k which is much closer to the actual numbers produced for 04. And I wasnt speaking specifically of you mocking the GTO sales but if have read this whole thread you will see that many have.
GTPDan said:Oh and BTW, if you are a person who thinks the sales figures mean the Mustang is a better car when they will make 15 times more of them, then yes, you are ignorant.
An attorney might now add, "asked and answered!" GM is cutting their own expectations by 1/3rd based on lacklustre sales. There is NO other reason to do it. If they've made over 12K for '04, and cut max production to 12K for '05, it's certainly not because they expect a rise in sales. It's more likely due to profit loss and slow sales of the model.GTPDan said:As for the production cut, since they didnt produce 18 thousand what exactly got cut? GM is just saying that they will no longer use 18 thousand as their target maximum but are reducing that number to 12k which is much closer to the actual numbers produced for 04.
TomServo92 said:Yeah, there's nothing like the thrill of owning another GM marketing failure!
Seriously, I understand what you're saying but you underestimate Mustang owners. After all, the limited edition Mustangs like the Mach 1 and Cobra sell very well because they are more unique and rare than the GT.
tmac4468 said:That is pretty funny - given that the Machs had 3500 rebates on them at the end of the run to move them.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?