Car and Driver Review- 05 Stang vs. 05 GTO

TomServo92 said:

Did you ever stop to think that what makes a car more desirable than another isn't just performance numbers? No...I suppose your brain doesn't work at that level now does it?

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Wow....Did a mustang fan just say that there is more to the mustang than performance numbers??????

Mustang lovers like em cause they're fast rude and crude.

I do like the new mustang it is very well done.....i dont see however how Ford could put a 300hp car on the market when they knew a 400hp GTO was coming at the same time. Not to mention the GTO engine is far more advanced than the mustang. It is a 6.0liter with 400 hp and the mustangs is a 4.6liter with 300hp.....and they get the same basic gas mileage(mustang is 17, 25 and the gto's 17,27). Ford got a little way to go on thier engines.

Overall i say thumbs up to ford...they just got beat.

stang-no-mus(t) said:

Wow....Did a mustang fan just say that there is more to the mustang than performance numbers??????

Mustang lovers like em cause they're fast rude and crude.

I do like the new mustang it is very well done.....i dont see however how Ford could put a 300hp car on the market when they knew a 400hp GTO was coming at the same time. Not to mention the GTO engine is far more advanced than the mustang. It is a 6.0liter with 400 hp and the mustangs is a 4.6liter with 300hp.....and they get the same basic gas mileage(mustang is 17, 25 and the gto's 17,27). Ford got a little way to go on thier engines.

Overall i say thumbs up to ford...they just got beat.

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Yes, that's exactly what I said. Are you that dense? I guess you feel the need to come here to somehow make you feel better since you obviously got your feelings hurt when C&D didn't pick your car. You know what, the only thing I have against the GTO is that the styling isn't appealing to me. But of course I don't go over to a GTO forum and harp on about how the styling sucks and how it's sales failure in it's first year. You know why I don't? Because I'm not a pathetic little loser of a troll with nothing better to do than prop up my self-esteem by stirring up trouble in an internet forum. I really don't care if you prefer the the GTO to Mustang. But it does bother me when obnoxious little trolls like yourself come in here just to stroke themselves. If your car is so great, why do have a inferiority complex about it? Get a life and go away!

stang-no-mus(t) said:

Wow....Did a mustang fan just say that there is more to the mustang than performance numbers??????

Mustang lovers like em cause they're fast rude and crude.

I do like the new mustang it is very well done.....i dont see however how Ford could put a 300hp car on the market when they knew a 400hp GTO was coming at the same time. Not to mention the GTO engine is far more advanced than the mustang. It is a 6.0liter with 400 hp and the mustangs is a 4.6liter with 300hp.....and they get the same basic gas mileage(mustang is 17, 25 and the gto's 17,27). Ford got a little way to go on thier engines.

Overall i say thumbs up to ford...they just got beat.

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ford didn't worry about the GTO because it's not a direct competitor. why do I say that? because they are barely selling any GTO's and there is no demand for them. the GTO isn't an issue.

man...u guys get a little tense when a little competition comes rolling in.

JonJon said:

ford didn't worry about the GTO because it's not a direct competitor. why do I say that? because they are barely selling any GTO's and there is no demand for them. the GTO isn't an issue.

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I think that's why the GTO owners keep coming over here. They own a car that:

1) Is bashed in the press for it's styling
2) Is not seen as a threat to Mustang sales
3) Is ignored by the public in general

All the attention the '05 Mustang is getting has their little panties all in knots.

"Change those numbers and erase the "gotta- have - it - factor"(25 to 18) which is more like "How i think it looks factor,""

Actually, there is a styling section, so who knows what "gotta have it" actually measures? It doesn't mean fun to drive either because the GTO won on that one too. (Which, btw, suprised me--I figured with the shifter and heel-and-toeing issues that C&D originally complained about, maybe the Mustang won because it is more fun to drive... But that isn't the case...)

The only real problem with that comparison is the "gotta have it" factor.

Reading through it, I know that I would prefer the GTO, since I like understated styling and want a comfortable backseat. They were fair about the performance advantage, and didn't bash the GTO like they did last year... They painted it as a good car, just a little plain for their tastes...

They were fair to the Mustang too.

The only problem was that stupid "gotta have it" factor. That factor counts 50% more than "fun to drive" and we don't even know what it means. They should get rid of the factor and just rate both cars without it.

Then, they should pick a winner based on their subjective preferences, ignoring the total.

If they don't want to get rid of the "gotta have it" factor, they should explain what it means. The Mustang basically got killed on their comparison sheet except for "gotta have it". If they just think the Mustang is the better car regardless of points added, they shouldn't pick a winner based on points.

Adding "gotta have it" because of some inherent flaw in the point system doesn't make sense! If the point system is flawed, don't use it... Adding "gotta have it" to patch up a funamental flaw is retarded.

And if the Mustang really did win on styling, they should have just made the styling section worth more points, and added to there, instead of "gotta have it".

Basically, if you read the article content, it isn't that bad.. It mentions fairly balanced points (like the GTO's luxury vs. the Mustang's looks) but the grading criteria just doesn't make any sense...

I am glad to see stangnet members saying they don't take C&D seriously... Because that is the main point. You guys over here know what you want--you want the Mustang because it has better styling (for you guys) and it's a better performance value for the money... The GTO guys want an understated car with a back seat... It really comes down to preferences.

BTW, even the guys at C&D's own forums are complaining about "gotta have it". It just seems like a ridiculous factor to add tot he comparison, and add so many points to, without explaining...

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1) Is bashed in the press for it's styling
2) Is not seen as a threat to Mustang sales
3) Is ignored by the public in general
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I respectfully disagree... If they wanted a high volume car with flashy styling, they would have bought a Mustang, not a GTO. Part of the appeal of the GTo is its exclusivity (low sales) and "stealth car" factor. These two points are really minuses against the car, because it is about preferences. (Now more objective things, like the poor shifter and the heel-and-toe problems mentioned in C&D, those are more objective.)

I think there are a lot of GTO owners here simply because the Mustang is an important new car to the American market, and therefore they are curius about it like many other people. Some got pissed of at the C&D article, but most people on C&D's own forums that don't even own a GTO don't like the comparison! Even many Mustang owners here don't like it.

stang-no-mus(t) said:

man...u guys get a little tense when a little competition comes rolling in.

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Competition is fine...obnoxious little trolls are not.

WOW. Im really impressed to see some of you SVT guys that been trashing the 05 stick up for it in this thread. My apologies to anything I said bad about the SVT and any owners of it. We are all part of something bigger ... The Ford Mustang and you can count on me to have your back if you need it

stang-no-mus(t) said:

I do like the new mustang it is very well done.....i dont see however how Ford could put a 300hp car on the market when they knew a 400hp GTO was coming at the same time. Not to mention the GTO engine is far more advanced than the mustang. It is a 6.0liter with 400 hp and the mustangs is a 4.6liter with 300hp.....and they get the same basic gas mileage(mustang is 17, 25 and the gto's 17,27). Ford got a little way to go on thier engines.

Overall i say thumbs up to ford...they just got beat.

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Entirely false...The LS1/LS2 is a great engine, but it lack the modern features such as VVT introduced in the new 3V 4.6L. As they say, there is no replacement for displacement. Also, the reason why the LS1 gets great mileage is because the 6 speed has a real low 6th gear. My friends C5 turns under 2k rpms on the highway.

Jon Do said:

I respectfully disagree... If they wanted a high volume car with flashy styling, they would have bought a Mustang, not a GTO. Part of the appeal of the GTo is its exclusivity (low sales) and "stealth car" factor.

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GTO owners might get exclusivity, but thats cause the sales are poor. My point being, an owner of an SL55 AMG gets exclusivity because MB only builds a certain amount. GTO owners get exclusivity because of the lack of sales. The GTO is bland, hence the "stealth" factor. Non car enthusiasts might even think it is a coupe version of the Grand Prix.

max2000jp said:

Entirely false...The LS1/LS2 is a great engine, but it lack the modern features such as VVT introduced in the new 3V 4.6L. As they say, there is no replacement for displacement. Also, the reason why the LS1 gets great mileage is because the 6 speed has a real low 6th gear. My friends C5 turns under 2k rpms on the highway.

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Thank you for giving me a logical point and not coming back with "sore looser" of a remark.
very well said

Jon Do said:

Part of the appeal of the GTo is its exclusivity (low sales) and "stealth car" factor.

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Talk about putting a spin on things. So now we call lack of sales "exclusivity" and mundane styling "stealth"?

Frank99TA said:

One more thought.... If Pontiac called the now GTO something like the Grand Prix GTO or the G8 instead.. Would it have been met with more open arms.. Then it would be compared with cars like the infiniti G35, lexus IS, or even the mighty BMW? Maybe its not the car, its the way Pontiac and GM presented the car..

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thats what people have been arguing this whole time.

stang-no-mus(t) said:

Thank you for giving me a logical point and not coming back with "sore looser" of a remark.
very well said

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That's funny...your first post here was a "sore loser" post because C&D didn't pick the GTO.

The reason the Mustang "won" is because it got 25 vs. 18 points in their "got-to-have-it factor" category. In other words, the Mustang is a very desireable car (and this extremely subjective category allowed the Mustang to edge out the GTO by one point). The GTO is a cool car if you can get over the fact it looks like a Grand Am.

66Satellite said:

The reason the Mustang "won" is because it got 25 vs. 18 points in their "got-to-have-it factor" category. In other words, the Mustang is a very desireable car (and this extremely subjective category allowed the Mustang to edge out the GTO by one point). The GTO is a cool car if you can get over the fact it looks like a Grand Am.

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Exactly. I don't hate the GTO but I just can't make myself like it either in spite of it's great engine and performance. I think that's the gist of the C&D "gotta have it" scoring. It's the same reason BMWs routinely get selected over better performing competitors.

If I could draw a dead horse and a bat beating it on this reply, I would!

P.S I belong to a few forums because I love cars of all types. I'm not a car specific kind of guy. It is has an internal combustion engine then I'm game!!!

Doc, I am a huge Mustang fan, but I must say, your GTO ain't bad lookin! Not a hot pony, but a nice lookin ride, IMHO.

iviustang50h said:

That's funny Dan because every day I pass a GM dealorship that has at LEAST 20 GTOs sitting out in the front of the lot. So much for limited production huh?

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Just because that particular dealership was a schmuck and ordered to many cars has nothing to do with the overall production for the entire year. Of course I didn't know any one dealer that could order that many at one time. I know my local dealer has one for test drives and orders as needed the exact car the buyer wants. I drove by my local Ford dealer today and saw 10 six cylinder 05 Stangs lined up by the street and a car carrier unloading more. I soon will be overrun by "all show-no go" stangs. I would rather see more GTs in my area. They are more fun to play with

TomServo92 said:

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Are you that dense? I guess you feel the need to come here to somehow make you feel better since you obviously got your feelings hurt when C&D didn't pick your car. You know what, the only thing I have against the GTO is that the styling isn't appealing to me. But of course I don't go over to a GTO forum and harp on about how the styling sucks and how it's sales failure in it's first year. You know why I don't? Because I'm not a pathetic little loser of a troll with nothing better to do than prop up my self-esteem by stirring up trouble in an internet forum. I really don't care if you prefer the the GTO to Mustang. But it does bother me when obnoxious little trolls like yourself come in here just to stroke themselves. If your car is so great, why do have a inferiority complex about it? Get a life and go away!

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Well said, what's with all these trolls lately anyways?