Car going into "default"?

[NYC LSC]

A search for "default" turned up nothing of any use.

I've had a VERY weird idle problem for what seems like forever now.

I replaced my Pro-M 75mm bullet with a C&L 76mm meter because I was told it was the problem. The C&L didn't clear it up.

It's doing the same thing again (I've posted here before about this) - only this time, it's got a new ACT (which sits on top of the lower intake manifold), new ECT, two new O2 sensors and a new fuel filter, along with the MAF meter. MAP sensor (actually MAP turned BAP sensor) is still stock or whatever was in there when I picked up the car 4 years ago. TPS seems to sweep through the volts fine. WOT, the car seems to be fine. IAC has been cleaned and still looks clean. FP is at 40psi with the vacuum line off and plugged. The EGR is on the spacer along with the wiring for the actuator, but there's no vacuum line, no EVP sensor or emissions stuff being used any longer. Symptoms are: car will idle under 1000rpm out of nowhere (VERY choppy idle) and the car STINKS of fumes - like it's running VERY rich.

I remember looking at Pro-M's site for prices on a new element (when thinking the old Pro-M was no good), and came across some FAQ on their site about how the ECM goes into default when the car smells very rich like mine does...

http://www.pro-flow.com/tech%20info/frequentlyasked.htm

3. My car smells like gasoline, or it burns your eyes. The car is running in default and not following the mass air meter. Self test should be run to determine vehicle problems, and all codes should be addressed in order to prevent the vehicle form running in default.

That is EXACTLY what mine does when the idle gets funky.

So....anyone ever have something like this happen? Why would it not read the MAF meter out of nowhere?? It's not even like there's a loose connection - the car does it standing still! If I shut the car down and re-start it, it goes away for however long it feels like it wants to run right (anywhere from 5 minutes to over an hour).

FWIW, it's an A9S ECM, and from what I've read there is no "engine" light with these ECMs, so there's obviously no light lit and I've yet to pick up a test light or analog voltmeter. Tried it with my digital Fluke meter and couldn't figure out the codes. For now I'll just hope that someone here has had a similar problem.

Thanks in advance for ANY help and sorry for the long thread.

 

[NYC LSC]

*bump*

 

[PonyBoy90]

Sounds like you are running rich. After all, you mentioned in your post you bypassed all the smog equipment.

Your idle below 1000RPM's is correct. Should be somwhere between 700-900 RPM's.

You running an aftermarket high degree cam in there?

 

[NYC LSC]

The smog equipment has been bypassed for the last few years. This problem is pretty recent.

When the car is running right, I have it set to idle at 1,000rpm. When this whole problem shows up, the car idles below 1,000rpm. I have it setup that way due to the cam that's in the car (Comp Cams XE-270HR-14). So yes, there's an aftermarket cam in there.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[PonyBoy90]

When did the cam go in?

Sounds like the cam set-up and running rich has finally caught up to you. When the car runs rich, you've got some major carbon buildup going on. Eventually over time everything inside your manifold get's fouled up with carbon build-up hence, explains your bad idle.

Do you have a vacuum leak somewhere? With all the stuff you've been doing maybe some of your tiny gaskets like the ones on your IAB and EGR aren't cutting it anymore.

I'm thinking you need to do a major "de-carbing" job on your intake manifold and just cleaning out your IAB just won't cut it anymore.

 

[NYC LSC]

The cam went in 1700 miles ago, along with the entire engine.

I'm gonna have a look at the ten pin connectors (salt & pepper shakers) and see if anything's loose there. I doubt that's it, as what I quoted from Pro-Ms site makes me think otherwise, but it can't hurt.

This all pretty much started after the engine swap. Maybe something got screwed up when we pulled those connectors....?

 

[PonyBoy90]

Yep, sounds like your stock computer is having problems adjusting to all your modifications like your cam. Now your computer is always having to adjust itself and now you are experiencing the dreaded "hunting idle".

Maybe you need to get the car dyno'd and have an aftermarket chip installed for your cam?

 

[NYC LSC]

The car is getting dyno'ed this coming Sunday. Hopefully the A/F monitoring will help figure out this problem (if I don't get to checking stuff before then).

 

[89roadster]

A "just wondering what if" kind of question, what happens if you disconnect the MAF while it's idleing?

Did you actually get codes and they didn't make sense, or could you not get codes at all?

 

[NYC LSC]

If I disconnect the MAF when the car is idling right, it'll idle like crap - like what's going on intermittently here. I haven't done it when the car acts up yet.

Using the paper clip method, I get no codes - as in the "engine" light doesn't come on at all. Doesn't come on if I turn the key to the "run" position, either. I've tried it with a digital voltmeter and it was spitting out some kind of numbers, but I dunno if they were codes or not - it was all over the place. lol I can't get to my friend's shop to use his Snap-On scan tool, so I'm gonna find an Actron tester and see if that'll work.

After doing some more reading and searching, I'm going to re-check the ECM ground, the ground for the mass air sensor at the 60-pin connector for the ECM and the O2 sensor ground (I have a stray orange wire at the back of the intake, but was told the O2s are grounded).

Thanks for the reply, man.

 

[NYC LSC]

BTTT to see if the "night crew" might have some insight.

Thanks again, guys.

 

[HISSIN50]

If I disconnect the MAF when the car is idling right, it'll idle like crap - like what's going on intermittently here. I haven't done it when the car acts up yet.

Using the paper clip method, I get no codes - as in the "engine" light doesn't come on at all. Doesn't come on if I turn the key to the "run" position, either. I've tried it with a digital voltmeter and it was spitting out some kind of numbers, but I dunno if they were codes or not - it was all over the place. lol I can't get to my friend's shop to use his Snap-On scan tool, so I'm gonna find an Actron tester and see if that'll work.

After doing some more reading and searching, I'm going to re-check the ECM ground, the ground for the mass air sensor at the 60-pin connector for the ECM and the O2 sensor ground (I have a stray orange wire at the back of the intake, but was told the O2s are grounded).

Thanks for the reply, man.

i did not read the whole thing - just this post. so forgive me if im off base.

as you have gathered, it sounds like the CEL is burned out. a test light can be used as i recall. i like using the reader, as you are going to get (saying this to endorse you getting your own reader).

i think the orange/?? wire on the back of the intake is for the heating element on the HEGO (i think the lambas are grounded via being attached to the motor, but the ground wire is for to get them to temp very quickly).

good luck.

 

[NYC LSC]

Actually, the light isn't burned out - I switched it with a known good bulb and I still get nada.

You are right about that orange wire - it is for the O2 sensors. When a friend and myself had the intake off to replace the stock gaskets for bigger ones, we went through the wiring back there and didn't see anywhere where the wire should go. My friend's had about 11 or 12 Foxes in his time, so he knew where to look and whatnot. Just to be safe, I'm going to splice in a wire from the ECM to that wire on the back of the intake and see if that changes anything.

There's something else that I neglected to mention - and that's when starting the car when cold. It won't idle on it's own - I have to keep giving it gas until (I'm guessing here) the car goes into closed loop and the O2s take over.

My friend always said this car was posessed, and I've NEVER doubted him. lol

Anyways, enough blabbing. Thanks again for the replies guys. Hopefully I can get this fixed before the car is to be dyno'ed this coming Sunday.