car wont start when hot.....

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 3, 2007

grady,

you are the man. i'll buy you a beer or 3 if you are ever in south fl. startup idle is good now and hot starts are perfect with just the change to the injector slope high scalar. if you dont mind, my datalog from the startup just now is below as well as the tune i am using. any advice on it would be greatly appreciated.

roger

http://roger.tiora.net/mustang/datalogs/070403130817.DB

http://roger.tiora.net/mustang/tunes/roger.CCF

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2007

Green 94 5.0 said:
grady,

you are the man. i'll buy you a beer or 3 if you are ever in south fl. startup idle is good now and hot starts are perfect with just the change to the injector slope high scalar. if you dont mind, my datalog from the startup just now is below as well as the tune i am using. any advice on it would be greatly appreciated.

roger

http://roger.tiora.net/mustang/datalogs/070403130817.DB

http://roger.tiora.net/mustang/tunes/roger.CCF

Good to see you had some forward progress

I can't deal with your CalEdit file as my older software won't play nice
with your newer version but I'm sure some of the other knowledgeable
Tweecer folk will get involved here and offer their input.

I can look at your dlog and see if I see anything later this afternoon

Grady

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2007

OK Roger

After thinking about what we were trying to do here
I decided to do this the easy way
and
Just blew off using EA

I just threw your data in Log Analyst which allows me to quickly
switch from raw column data to graphical data

I quickly saw the following

Good Pay Load choicees btw Roger ... thank you

1 this was at idle
2 ect range ... a bit over 100 to almost 190
3 most of the file had inactive K's ... I suspect you did a pcm reset pre dlog
4 at around data sample event 4740 the K's went active
5 K's climbed steady from that point on to around 1.08

This is an indication you are lean at idle

You see the K's adding fuel
while
You see LAMBSE values commanding fat ratios

I'd load in inj offsets for 42's
Cut your minimum pulse width in half
Reset the pcm
Do another log

btw ... be sure to give it enough time for the K's to do two things

1) start to go active
2) see how they are gonna react ... + or - fuel

One last thought here

Are you using your original maf transfer values
or
Have you done any +ing or -ing to the cell KG values

Grady

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 3, 2007

final5-0 said:
OK Roger

After thinking about what we were trying to do here
I decided to do this the easy way
and
Just blew off using EA

I just threw your data in Log Analyst which allows me to quickly
switch from raw column data to graphical data

I quickly saw the following

Good Pay Load choicees btw Roger ... thank you

1 this was at idle
2 ect range ... a bit over 100 to almost 190
3 most of the file had inactive K's ... I suspect you did a pcm reset pre dlog
4 at around data sample event 4740 the K's went active
5 K's climbed steady from that point on to around 1.08

This is an indication you are lean at idle

You see the K's adding fuel
while
You see LAMBSE values commanding fat ratios

I'd load in inj offsets for 42's
Cut your minimum pulse width in half
Reset the pcm
Do another log

btw ... be sure to give it enough time for the K's to do two things

1) start to go active
2) see how they are gonna react ... + or - fuel

One last thought here

Are you using your original maf transfer values
or
Have you done any +ing or -ing to the cell KG values

Grady

by injector offsets are you talking about the slopes? if so, with the injector slope high and low at 42 it was surging and hot starts were a no go. as far as the maf transfer, the meter is a pro-m 77mm cal'd for 42's S/C. i leaned out the entire curve 5% and the burning eye sensation went away along with the surge.

final5-0 · Apr 3, 2007

Green 94 5.0 said:
by injector offsets are you talking about the slopes? if so, with the injector slope high and low at 42 it was surging and hot starts were a no go. as far as the maf transfer, the meter is a pro-m 77mm cal'd for 42's S/C. i leaned out the entire curve 5% and the burning eye sensation went away along with the surge.

No Roger ... but ... They do work together

Injector offsets are actually a function called Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage
in my software

I hope its still the same in your newer version

Basically the offset will compensate when the battery voltage varies ......
which btw ... it can vary a good bit

The extremes here could be thought of when you got no accessories
on one end and say a dark rainy day for the other when you got your
wipers, head lights, ac (defrost function), etc on and are pulling a heavy
drain from the battery.

anyway ... each size inj has offset values and you need to load them
in your file. You can find those values on the Tweecer site.

Now ... about those slopes

Your slopes, high and low are a way to further tune the Closed Loop
part of your tune. Low slope value is for smaller pulsewidths and
High Slope comes into play as the pulsewidth gets larger.

The j4j1 has equal slope values but I have found better stability
with not using equal values myself.

Here is a little rule of thumb for you

The farther apart your high/low slope values .....
The higher in value your inj offsets are gonna turn out to be

EA has excellent info that gives insight to all these inj settings btw

I've seen many times peeps say the typical ProM sc maf cal is too
fat on the lower end of the curve and most of the time ...
they said it needed to be leaned out a bit.

I'd not lean anything in the curve that pertains to Open Loop (typically
the top half) until you get around to WOT tuning if you ask me

Between some basic stuff on my site and the help files you find in
EA you should come away with a pretty good understanding about
dialing in your injectors with just a bit of reading

Hope some of this stuff helps you Roger

Grady

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 4, 2007

final5-0 said:
No Roger ... but ... They do work together

Injector offsets are actually a function called Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage
in my software

I hope its still the same in your newer version

Basically the offset will compensate when the battery voltage varies ......
which btw ... it can vary a good bit

The extremes here could be thought of when you got no accessories
on one end and say a dark rainy day for the other when you got your
wipers, head lights, ac (defrost function), etc on and are pulling a heavy
drain from the battery.

anyway ... each size inj has offset values and you need to load them
in your file. You can find those values on the Tweecer site.

Now ... about those slopes

Your slopes, high and low are a way to further tune the Closed Loop
part of your tune. Low slope value is for smaller pulsewidths and
High Slope comes into play as the pulsewidth gets larger.

The j4j1 has equal slope values but I have found better stability
with not using equal values myself.

Here is a little rule of thumb for you

The farther apart your high/low slope values .....
The higher in value your inj offsets are gonna turn out to be

EA has excellent info that gives insight to all these inj settings btw

I've seen many times peeps say the typical ProM sc maf cal is too
fat on the lower end of the curve and most of the time ...
they said it needed to be leaned out a bit.

I'd not lean anything in the curve that pertains to Open Loop (typically
the top half) until you get around to WOT tuning if you ask me

Between some basic stuff on my site and the help files you find in
EA you should come away with a pretty good understanding about
dialing in your injectors with just a bit of reading

Hope some of this stuff helps you Roger

Grady

being that i have no accessories but the alternator, do you really feel this is a point i need to dedicate time to? also as far as the MAF transfer goes, it was a shot in the dark so the quickest thing i could do was to just lean the entire curve. i agree 100% with your comments about OL, so i am going to return the values in that range to the original values which to my understanding are 3% richer than normal across the board with the s/c calibration. what MAF voltage would be a good starting point to richen it back up in the MAF Transfer function?

final5-0 · Apr 4, 2007

Green 94 5.0 said:
being that i have no accessories but the alternator, do you really feel this is a point i need to dedicate time to?

Its not like you gotta put a lot of time or effort in the change. You just plug in the values for your 42's. You can fine tune things a bit with these values if needed. But ... Yes ... I'd load them in as you now have inj's that are twice a large as the pcm thinks are being used.

also as far as the MAF transfer goes, it was a shot in the dark so the quickest thing i could do was to just lean the entire curve.

Sure ... You gotta try things and see what happens!

And Yes ... there is usually more than one way to go about making things better.

Working with the various inj values like slopes, offsets, and breakpoint, will ... IMHO ... yield you a more stable Closed Loop portion of the tune than just working with the maf curve.

Now ... You will most likely find a spot or two in the curve that will need a bit of adjustment when you get your tune close and are working on the fine tuning.

i agree 100% with your comments about OL, so i am going to return the values in that range to the original values which to my understanding are 3% richer than normal across the board with the s/c calibration. what MAF voltage would be a good starting point to richen it back up in the MAF Transfer function?

Heres the deal ... You strive to stay in Closed Loop while working with the inj values.

When dialing in the inj values for a stable CL tune, you will see trends develop in your datalogs. Look for what I call the breakpoint in the maf curve that seperates Closed Loop from Open Loop.

For my combo, I found 2.6 maf volts was the highest I ever recorded while still in CL.

When I started to work on my final WOT af ratio which involves working with fuel table and maf curve ... I made sure I did not change any part of the curve from 2.6 and below as I did not want to wipe out all my work in the CL part of the curve.

With your blower, I could not even guess how that would effect things here but ... I'd have to guess it would.

Grady

99FiveOh · Apr 4, 2007

I don't have a tweecer, but the SCT tuner that did my tune said he needed to modify something to fix my hot start problem, which is the same as you guys have. Started doing this after my tune.

Yellow302 · Apr 4, 2007

SCT chip same hot start prob with 42'lbs

changed pulse width to 0 and added some air to the crank iac worked like a charm

BobCat · Apr 5, 2007

glad to hear it

final5-0 · Apr 6, 2007

BobCat said:
glad to hear it

I've been meaning to give you an Offical 94-95 :SNSign: welcome

Good to see another self tuner join in with the rest of us

We look forward to your input and hope to learn from it

Grady

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 6, 2007

final5-0 said:
I've been meaning to give you an Offical 94-95 :SNSign: welcome

Good to see another self tuner join in with the rest of us

We look forward to your input and hope to learn from it

Grady

hehe...it looks as if he has been around longer than both of us, just not as vocal.

car wont start when hot.....

Green 94 5.0

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