Car would not start this morning

The Shape · Sep 14, 2005

I haven't driven my 2.3 coupe since saturday , but it was running fine then. I went out this morning and got in it to drive to work and got nothing. I do get the door chime when I put the key in the ignition and my headlights will still come on. But when I turn the key forward the door ding slows a bit the tach jumps to 1500 RPM's for some reason and nothing else. I don't hear the solenoid click or anything at all. First though was a completely dead battery , but since my headlights are still working and I can hear the fuel pump prime I am not sure

Fishhawk · Sep 14, 2005

The Shape said:
I haven't driven my 2.3 coupe since saturday , but it was running fine then. I went out this morning and got in it to drive to work and got nothing. I do get the door chime when I put the key in the ignition and my headlights will still come on. But when I turn the key forward the door ding slows a bit the tach jumps to 1500 RPM's for some reason and nothing else. I don't hear the solenoid click or anything at all. First though was a completely dead battery , but since my headlights are still working and I can hear the fuel pump prime I am not sure

It still might be the battery. Just not enough juice to turn the motor. Try leaving the lights on for 30 seconds or a minute. If they die out in that amount of time there's your answer.

The Shape · Sep 14, 2005

Funny you should say that. I just got back from lunch I stopped by the house and did that very thing. Took about 1 minute for the lights to fade away. Now I have to figure out what killed it. The battery is only a year old.

Fishhawk · Sep 14, 2005

The Shape said:
Funny you should say that. I just got back from lunch I stopped by the house and did that very thing. Took about 1 minute for the lights to fade away. Now I have to figure out what killed it. The battery is only a year old.

Could be something as simple as corrosion at the battery terminals. Start checking wire connections, especially the pos and neg cables. Might even just replace them. Take your alternator and voltage regulator into an Autozone if you have one in your town (I assume you do, they're like Starbucks) and have them tested. If they're good you just eliminated two possibilities.

RsStanG1987 · Sep 14, 2005

Yeah the cables are notorious for going bad. One time my cables went bad at wal mart i had to leave my car there over night because it was cold out. Fixed it then next day just to have the other cable go bad the next month. Do yourself a favor and change them both..

The Shape · Sep 14, 2005

I agree with you guys on the cables except that I did replace both of them when I installed this battery a year ago. I checked for a loose connection/corrosion and no dice. I did buy the absoloute cheapest battery auotzone had since this is my 2.3 beater but even it should last longer than a year.

HISSIN50 · Sep 14, 2005

James, also check for a draw like a glovebox light, vanity light (if foxes have lit vanities), etc that wont shut off.

Good luck bud.

The Shape · Sep 14, 2005

Yeah JT I am betting on a draw more than a bad battery at this point. I am gonna boost it when I get home and see how it does.

jrichker · Sep 14, 2005

Here's a checklist:

Since some of the tests will bypass the safety interlocks, make sure that the car is in neutral and the parking brake is set. Becoming a pancake isn’t part of the repair process…

Check battery, terminal connections, ground, starter relay switch (also known as solenoid) and starter in that order.

A voltmeter is handy if you are familiar with how to use it to find bad connections. Measure the voltage drop across a connection: more than .5 volts across a connection indicates a problem.
See http://www.fluke.com/application_notes/automotive/circuit.asp?AGID=1&SID=103 for help

1.) Will the car start if it is jumped? Then clean battery terminals and check battery.

2.) Check the battery to engine block ground, and the ground behind the engine to the firewall.

3.) Jump the big terminals on the starter relay next to the battery with a screwdriver - watch out for the sparks! If the engine cranks, the starter and power wiring is good. The starter relay is also known as a starter solenoid.

4.) Then pull the small push on connector (red wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Then jump between the screw and the terminal that is connected to the battery. If it starts, the relay is good and your problem is in the rest of the circuit.

5.) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems. See http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195963.gif for 88-90 year cars .OR see http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d80195964.gif for 91-93 year cars. See http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-95 model cars.

6.) The starter may be hung, loosen up the bolts that hold it on, and give it a good whack with a big hammer. Tighten up the bolts and try again.

7.) If that doesn't work, use a jumper cable from the positive lead on the battery direct to the starter post where the big wire from the relay connects. If it cranks then, it is the power wire from the relay gone bad. This will be hard to do, since there isn't much room to do it.

8.) Pull the starter and take it to Autozone or Pep Boys and have them test it. Starter fails test, then replace it. If you got this far, the starter is probably bad.

The Shape · Sep 14, 2005

Thanks J Richker your check lists are always a big help. Here is where i am so far. I boosted it off with no problem using my GT as soon as I hooked up the cables and hit the key it fired right up. I let it idle for a few minutes and took it for a drive. I noticed the voltage gauge was really low (stock gauge not sure exact reading it was low but not in the red), but the battery light wasn't on. I drove around about 30 minutes came home and parked it waited about 5 minutes and it started right back up. I went in and washed my hands came back out and it fired up. I then took my GT to the gas station and to get some food after I got home and ate dinner I went outside to try it again. It had then been about an hour since I drove it. My interior lights were again very dim and it wouldn't even try to crank. I am thinking maybe my battery has bit the dust?? I will pull it off and take it to be checked out tommorow.

The Shape · Sep 15, 2005

Ended up being a bad cell in the battery. All is now well.

The Shape · Sep 15, 2005

sorry double post

HISSIN50 · Sep 15, 2005

Cool stuff James. Glad you got it.

The Shape · Sep 16, 2005

Well looks like I jumped the gun. I went to crank it this afternoon and it is dead again. Guess I bought a new battery for no reason (there tester did say the old one was bad though). It will start right up with a boost though. It will then start a few more times on it's on then after about 30 minutes nothing. I talked to a buddy this afternoon that works in an auto electric shop. He said in his opinion for it to drain the battery that fast it had to be a pretty big draw. He said that most times a dome light or glove box light will take a day or two to completely drain a battery not the hour it takes mine to drain. He mentioned something about the voltage regulator sticking and causing this symptom. Anyone ever hear of that?? I am gonna let him check it out for me tommrow since I have to work and see what he finds.

Aren't you supposed to work on the 5.0 and DRIVE the beater??? I think I have it backwards LOL.

jrichker · Sep 16, 2005

The voltage regulator on an 87 5.0 is internal the the alternator.

Typically it is something draining the battery. Small things like glove box or courtesy lights are often the culprits. If you have an aftermarket stereo or alarm system, it is also suspect.

The ideal method is to disconnect the positive terminal, and connect a Digital Multimeter (DVM) between the positive terminal on the battery and the positive cable. Set the DVM on a low current scale of 2-5 amps if it doesn't auto range. Watch the current draw, and then start pulling out fuses. When you see a sudden drop in the current, that circuit is the likely culprit. Note that the computer, radio & clock will draw less than 1/10 amp to keep the settings alive.

See http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf. You will need the Adobe Acrobat viewer which is also a free download – http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

Look at a possible bad diode in the alternator.

HISSIN50 · Sep 16, 2005

Your buddy is probably talking about a bad diode in the alternator (thus allowing juice to flow both ways, as you know. Not good).

If you do JR's test and if you have a draw you cant find, disco' the alternator from the solenoid lug and see if the draw goes away.

Or a bench test will show a bad diode if they test for it.

Good luck James.

The Shape · Sep 16, 2005

Here is another test I just did. I pulled the battery off of my GT and put it on the 2.3 car. It cranked the car fine. I then turned it off and let it set for 30 minutes and then tried it again. The battery was completly dead! What ever is draing the battery is doing it really fast. First thing I am gonna do is pull the alt. and have it tested. If it passes then I will bring home a multimeter from work and start looking.

NosPony · Sep 17, 2005

My 85 did the same thing as you are describing. I would jump it and it would start again. As soon as I would let it set for about 20 to 30 mins it wouldnt start. It was the voltage regulator on it. I would try the voltage regulator next. Which like jrichker is internal. So probably you will need a new alternator. You did say that the volt gauge was looking low so its probably the alternator.

The Shape · Sep 17, 2005

I really hope that the Alt turns out to be the culprit. I am having it checked after work today. I would rather shell out for a new alternator than spend my day off looking for another cause. But I have a multi meter ready to take home with me so I will do what I have to do.

What bothers me is that my battery tested bad and I got a new battery. If is the diode or the voltage regulator could either damage a battery?

RsStanG1987 · Sep 17, 2005

That happened to me once.. I thought the battery was bad so I bought a new one.. Then it went dead turned out to be the altenator

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