Carb, Fuel, or Ignition issue? Intermittent running rough

[pb26518]

Hi everyone, pretty new on here-
I have a 289 with a recently rebuilt top-end (edelbrock e-street package - new heads, cam, timing chain, intake, carb). It was running great for about 3 months or so, then all the sudden started having issues- trouble starting, mainly just not running smooth- jerking, rough idle, occasional backfire, then sputtering and dying. I thought I had it figured out the other day when I pulled off the fuel filter and noticed it had a bunch of junk in it (rust from bad gas tank). So I replaced the filter and disconnected the hose from the bad tank and ran it into a red gas can with fresh gas. Took awhile to get started but once it did, it ran great! Kept it going for about 15 minutes then shut it off thinking I'd isolated the problem to bad gas. Later that day wanted to test again-it fired up on the first turn, ran great for about 5-10 minutes, then starting running rough again and sputtered and died! So far I have adjusted the timing, made sure the coil was getting good voltage, made sure gas in the tank (lol), new spark plugs and wires. I'm trying to isolate if it's a fuel or ignition issue. I sprayed some starter fluid in the carb and it did not seem to light right off, making me think it's ignition. A couple mechanics I had look at it recommended electronic ignition- currently has a cheap points distributor on there. But would that cause the intermittent issues? Or could it be some clogged jets from the rusty gas tank in my new carb Trying to figure this out the past few months has been a headache, any help is much appreciated!
Pat

 

[mattbaker302]

hey so here are some things id check: first, make sure there are no vacuum leaks, then check the carb. to me, it sounds like after it warms up the choke turns off and that's when it dies. I had a problem where I had to run mine with the choke on all the time. if it's not a vacuum leak or a carb problem then id move on to plugs and wires make sure you have the wires to the right spot, 15426378. check the plug caps and make sure they aren't fouled. Id love to mess with your motor for awhile! ive got the 289s twin, the 302. let me know how it goes!
oh something else is it an electic choke?

 

[08GT500]

Hi, Heck no- keep the points! Tell them to shove that Pertronix box up..well..you read me..Points work just fine properly set. Used Points in the 60’s & back without whining- right?
1) Pop a gauge on your fuel line. Should be 5-7lbs.
1A)Running an Exelbrock Carb, not a Holley, I’m guessing w/top end... (?)
2) Cycle the carb, car off & see if your primary accelerator pump is squirting strong. One good squirt or two should start the car. If no squirt occurs, or is weak, intermittent, float is likely stuck closed, or the pump, filter has an issue. Try #3, if no luck-skip to #7.
3) Pull a plug & see if it’s wet with fuel. If it is, clean & gap them (0.034) & the points (below). Retry.
4)Verify your choke is working if auto, not sticking, or being sucked closed under snapping the throttle.
5)Check your vacuum advance diaphragm by sucking on the line lightly, holds air- ‘‘tis ok.
6) Mechanical advance? Pull the cap & verify it can move freely, without obstruction.
7) Snake (careful, they get violent) your Wife/G/F’s nail file & make a few passes between the points, lightly. Or 400grit paper doubled over, back & front a few times. Clean, verify they’re closing & opening by jogging the motor over. Try to start it.
Set the gap. .017,.
If points are really pitted, black, condensor’s bad. Easy to get points/condenser online, look for Ford OE
8) Set your timing @ Idle with a light @ 6 Degrees, vacuum line disconnected.
-Can set dwell after it’s running decent.
-Car should start with a blast of fluid, was throttle WOT when you blasted it in?. May take longer to get firing if plates are closed in rear, front plates open at idle speed.
9) Backfiring is generally timing related, or it’s method of advance, Vacuum and/or Mechanical.
A skipping & flaming up the excess fuel when it ignites. A vacuum leak may also cause this. I’ve lost my eyebrows more than once over 1 or 2 4bbl’s, 3x2’s..(like Wile. E. Coyote w/explosives, lol)
10) Check for a spark with a plug pulled (or spark tester) & sitting on the motor so you can see it, spin the motor over. Nice fat/juicy blue spark? If not, Clean the points lightly, set the gap & retry.
11) Verify your firing orders correct since the issues & troubleshooting started. (Happens often).
12) You may have a stuck float, if crap did get in the Fuel, the jets, needle & seat may get clogged. If you have poor flow, tapping on the side of the Carb May free it, or removal & shake it up a bit, blow into the fuel inlet, you should hear air wth the carb sitting as if it were on the intake if the float(s) is/are free.
As you have air coming out, flip the Carb & continue blowing. Airflow should stop- meaning the needle & seat are closing properly. If it’s not, fuel’s not turning off once float rises (bowl is full), it’ll come out through the overflow & right into the Intake stream, start loading up the motor, running rough. Also Hard starts, smell of fuel & backfires.
Have you pulled a Carter AFB or Edelbrock Carb apart before? I can list the steps if you want. Let’s first see if you can clear it by gravity & a few g’s if shaking it, and all else above. Any questions, please feel free to ask!
-John

 

[mattbaker302]

well john you definitely 1 upped my answer, im thinking its a carb or vacuum leak. I don't know why the points or ignition would stop after running for 15minutes.
seems like you know the steps for sure and after reading your comment I know a little more!

 

[pb26518]

Ok so I think I may have it figured out...I disconnected the fuel line at the carb last night to make sure the fuel pump was giving good pressure. It was pumping fine BUT I noticed a bunch of rust particles in the cup after! I cleaned out the cup really well and tried again and sure enough, more rust pieces!The only thing after the filter is the fuel pump (original) and rubber lines I just replaced. So I’m thinking the rust has got into the carb and clogged some of the jets. Sound plausible?

I’m thinking my next obvious step is to replace the fuel filter...but I’m also thinking I may need to clean out the carb if it’s clogged. John I have partially rebuilt a Holley 4bbl a looooong time ago, but never an edelbrock, so any advice or tips you can give are much appreciated!

 

[pb26518]

Ok so I think I may have it figured out...I disconnected the fuel line at the carb last night to make sure the fuel pump was giving good pressure. It was pumping fine BUT I noticed a bunch of rust particles in the cup after! I cleaned out the cup really well and tried again and sure enough, more rust pieces!The only thing after the filter is the fuel pump (original) and rubber lines I just replaced. So I’m thinking the rust has got into the carb and clogged some of the jets. Sound plausible?

I’m thinking my next obvious step is to replace the fuel filter...but I’m also thinking I may need to clean out the carb if it’s clogged. John I have partially rebuilt a Holley 4bbl a looooong time ago, but never an edelbrock, so any advice or tips you can give are much appreciated!

Sorry, meant to say replace fuel pump**

 

[08GT500]

Ok so I think I may have it figured out...I disconnected the fuel line at the carb last night to make sure the fuel pump was giving good pressure. It was pumping fine BUT I noticed a bunch of rust particles in the cup after! I cleaned out the cup really well and tried again and sure enough, more rust pieces!The only thing after the filter is the fuel pump (original) and rubber lines I just replaced. So I’m thinking the rust has got into the carb and clogged some of the jets. Sound plausible?

I’m thinking my next obvious step is to replace the fuel filter...but I’m also thinking I may need to clean out the carb if it’s clogged. John I have partially rebuilt a Holley 4bbl a looooong time ago, but never an edelbrock, so any advice or tips you can give are much appreciated!
[/
Hi,
Yes, makes perfect sense about checking out the fuel pump, is it an OE Pump? I’d still expect the new filter is contaminated, however. If necessary, Can replace OE or match the pump better to your new setup.
.Thinking about the rust in the fuel...
Verifying the source. From tank-to front of vehicle. Once isolated, we can be certain it won’t return- then walk through the Edelbrock Carb cleaning, good idea to add a simple fuel pressure gauge on the Carb’s inlet line (12$). (Summit)
Then, verify the rest so it is & stays potent and reliable.:
1) Set/verify the spark advance/rate as correct.(Cam spec’s)
2) Verify Ignition Timing.(Cam spec’s)
3) Check Points/Condensor, set
4)Ignition Dwell.
-Thought is the Tank May have internally deteriorated (baffdropped into the bottom, causing rust laden fuel to make its way forward to the filter, clogging it,.
Test to prove/disprove..
1) Start a siphon from the pump inlet hose, translucent basin below, analyze fuel for presence of rust laden fuel.
2) Pull the new filter & look for excessive rust particulate on the input side.
Before any conclusions regarding tank are jumped to..
1) Car been sitting for a long time period?
2) Line(s) & tank original?
3) Lines from tank are carbon steel, jumping to 3/8” fuel line from the pump outlet to Carb? Jump from rubber to steel anywhere else, or closer to the tank?
4) Up to you, I always install a mechanical oil pressure gauge, dead accurate, easy install. Cost is about 25$ for a decent 2-1/16” Gauge.(American Muscle).
5) Cam is flat Tippett Hydraulic? Installed straight up, Have Cam Card?
6) Dual plane Intake, Performer RPM, Air Gap..(?)
6) Car ran strong, as you wanted it to before the fuel issue?
6) Carb CFM, 600-650CFM AVS or Standard Performer, single pump, single feed, Vacuum Secondaries, electric or Manual choke?
7) Running a ballast resistor with the Coil?
Biggie is verifying the source of the Iron particulate, no filter effectively eliminates significant rust, rapid clogging is the result. The rest is very straightforward. If you’ve rebuilt a Holley you’re very familiar with how a Carb works, the Edelbrock performer is near identical to the Carter AFB’s run on 64’ GTO’s, a few Mopar’s, simpler than a Holley, superior to a Quadrajet or Thermoquad. Top lifts off, everything’s there, Accelerator pump for.primaries, AVS has a dual feed, Dbl. pumper, Mech. Secondaries. run consistent, reliable Carb’s.
Ok, talk to you soon!
Best!
- John

 

[pb26518]

Hi John,
I’ll answer what I can:

Yes, makes perfect sense about checking out the fuel pump, is it an OE Pump?
Yes I believe it’s original pump
I’d still expect the new filter is contaminated, however. If necessary, Can replace OE or match the pump better to your new setup.
.Thinking about the rust in the fuel...
Verifying the source. From tank-to front of vehicle.
I have it running from a clean red gas can now through the steel fuel line. Im pretty sure the tank was the main source of rust...it’s original and I could see rust on the bottom. Fuel line also original (plan on replacing) so could be getting rust from there, or from fuel pump itself.
Once isolated, we can be certain it won’t return- then walk through the Edelbrock Carb cleaning, good idea to add a simple fuel pressure gauge on the Carb’s inlet line (12$). (Summit)
Good idea- I will look into getting that
Then, verify the rest so it is & stays potent and reliable.:
1) Set/verify the spark advance/rate as correct.(Cam spec’s)
2) Verify Ignition Timing.(Cam spec’s)
3) Check Points/Condensor, set
4)Ignition Dwell.
-Thought is the Tank May have internally deteriorated (baffdropped into the bottom, causing rust laden fuel to make its way forward to the filter, clogging it,.
Test to prove/disprove..
1) Start a siphon from the pump inlet hose, translucent basin below, analyze fuel for presence of rust laden fuel.
2) Pull the new filter & look for excessive rust particulate on the input side.
When I replaced old filter, it had a lot of debris in it. So certainly there is at least an issue with tank/lines/both
Before any conclusions regarding tank are jumped to..
1) Car been sitting for a long time period?
About 2-3 months since it last ran
2) Line(s) & tank original?
Yes
3) Lines from tank are carbon steel, jumping to 3/8” fuel line from the pump outlet to Carb? Jump from rubber to steel anywhere else, or closer to the tank?
I actually already have a 3/8 fuel line kit just need to install. There are several rubber pieces from pump to carb- may jump to all steel
4) Up to you, I always install a mechanical oil pressure gauge, dead accurate, easy install. Cost is about 25$ for a decent 2-1/16” Gauge.(American Muscle).
5) Cam is flat Tippett Hydraulic? Installed straight up, Have Cam Card?
Yes flat tappet, I can dig up the cam card from my records, came with edelbrock kit
6) Dual plane Intake, Performer RPM, Air Gap..(?)
Unsure on this one- I believe it’s performer rpm that came w/ kit
6) Car ran strong, as you wanted it to before the fuel issue?
Yes ran well. Felt a slight hesitation and occasional backfire after accelerating hard, but otherwise ran smooth previously
6) Carb CFM, 600-650CFM AVS or Standard Performer, single pump, single feed, Vacuum Secondaries, electric or Manual choke?
Performer 600cfm. Vacuum secondaries electric choke (not wired up)
7) Running a ballast resistor with the Coil?
Mechanic put in a ballast resistor- previously did not have one. He seemed to think cool was getting too much voltage and burning up Points.

 

[08GT500]

Hi, Great response & perhaps the most clear & concise one I’d ever had the pleasure of reading! Sounds like you’re way ahead of me, going after the tank & lines up to the Carb. Core problems are being addressed.
I’ll help in whatever capacity needed, whenever, sounds like a Carb disassembly/ clean/reassembly. Good idea to get that media out & start fresh.
Fuel pressure gauge is good insurance for troubleshooting, keeping an eye on things, a worthwhile step (why you’re there). Oil pressure gauge, same idea-
They sell OE tanks, straps online, going to do it, or a shop install? Rusty & crusty job, but doable in a normal garage.
This a 66’?
Let me know what your plans are, whether a “now” or winter project, I’d stick with Edelbrock, regarding the pump. A stock one was doing ok, no reason to go overboard.
Ok, I read SN mail daily.
Still plenty of fall driving- right?
Best!
- John

 

[08GT500]

Hi, If your plugs were a decent brownish tan/slightly black color, it’s a bit difficult to tell how early the rust was affecting things- I’m speaking of the hiccup/backfire you get when you jumped on it, assuming it was when you opened up your secondaries, that may indicate they are opening a tad slow & the Motors starving for fuel for that second.
I’d found a good pictorial read for you, the rust particles will likely stick to the bowls & need be sprayed out with gumout. I generally let parts sit overnight in Fuel & clean each piece $ reassemble the next day, piece by piece. Since your Carb is new, It’ll remove the clear anodizing off the polished aluminum.
Soo, I’d just have a large, shallow basin & spray out the offices with the Gumout, check that the accelerator pump’s seal isn’t pitted/worn by the rust particulate, I’d just replace it & the carbs upper gasket. Buy a rebuild kit, regardless- you’ll need the annular booster gases/o rings, few cans of cleaner so you can pull the jets & really blast that out. Clean out the Bowls first, you’ll do it again, spray inside, toothbrush- gently scrub & tilt the carb back to get most of it out. Dry with a rag. Spray the fuel inlet backwards, thoroughly, until it runs clean.
Work top to bottom, float levels are set, so on a clean white towel, lay them & the needle/seat parts out from each float out & spray right through.
May do one side (floats/booster) at a time, reference reassembly from the first side, start the 2nd float ass’y, needle/seat(careful with the retainer clip, goes over the float tang, top-pull the annular booster(s) out & spray through the office to flush the Jet/canal clean. The boosters I’d let sit in fuel a bit, likely most of the media is in these tiny orfices(facing down, installed) in them, so let it loosen it up, spray each office to let anything drain out through the large mounting hole. Spray into the overflow tubes for the float bowls. Clear off any old gaskets with plastic tools, don’t want to scrape into the gasket lines, any o-rings, apply a little petroleum jelly.
Blast out everything with dry, compressed air, or buy canned air- don’t use wire in any offices/passages, it’ll enlarge them. Carb flat, Clean out the accelerator pump feed offices, toothbrush inside & flush, all will lead back to the float cavities(bowls)..
Do a finish blast & rag clean of the bowls, reinstall the annular boosters(barrels), primary/secondary.
Once you clean out all the areas, carb upside down, blast it good with cleaner, allowvto drip dry. Little Vaseline on the accelerator pump seal, reinstall.
Shake the floats to be sure no fuel inside, -reinstall, needle/seat/clip and slide pivot pin through.to capture the assembly.
Flip the cab so the floats sag out, you shouldn’t be able to get any air in by losing into the inlet, flip back right side up, blow again, should have no resistance
Once you’ve got all the needles, offices clean, carefully reinstall the carb top, slowly so the rods fall into the holes.
Replace the S hook on the accerator Pump.
Install a clear/replaceable element fuel filter, can fire it off the clean gas Can with the lines replaced, Fuel pressure limit to 6psi, an edelbrock Pump will yield that, any more & it may overflow. If this occurs, buy a Pressure regulator(limiter). Holleys can handle a tad more pressure, 5-8lbs, Edelbrock Pump will keep it regulated.
Use a combo of this & the pic’s & Data, any questions, please feel free to ask!

Rebuilding And Tuning An Edelbrock Carburetor - Hot Rod

Rebuilding and tuning an Edelbrock carburetor.

www.hotrod.com

Best of luck, should have no issues.
-John

 

[pb26518]

Hi, If your plugs were a decent brownish tan/slightly black color, it’s a bit difficult to tell how early the rust was affecting things- I’m speaking of the hiccup/backfire you get when you jumped on it, assuming it was when you opened up your secondaries, that may indicate they are opening a tad slow & the Motors starving for fuel for that second.
I’d found a good pictorial read for you, the rust particles will likely stick to the bowls & need be sprayed out with gumout. I generally let parts sit overnight in Fuel & clean each piece $ reassemble the next day, piece by piece. Since your Carb is new, It’ll remove the clear anodizing off the polished aluminum.
Soo, I’d just have a large, shallow basin & spray out the offices with the Gumout, check that the accelerator pump’s seal isn’t pitted/worn by the rust particulate, I’d just replace it & the carbs upper gasket. Buy a rebuild kit, regardless- you’ll need the annular booster gases/o rings, few cans of cleaner so you can pull the jets & really blast that out. Clean out the Bowls first, you’ll do it again, spray inside, toothbrush- gently scrub & tilt the carb back to get most of it out. Dry with a rag. Spray the fuel inlet backwards, thoroughly, until it runs clean.
Work top to bottom, float levels are set, so on a clean white towel, lay them & the needle/seat parts out from each float out & spray right through.
May do one side (floats/booster) at a time, reference reassembly from the first side, start the 2nd float ass’y, needle/seat(careful with the retainer clip, goes over the float tang, top-pull the annular booster(s) out & spray through the office to flush the Jet/canal clean. The boosters I’d let sit in fuel a bit, likely most of the media is in these tiny orfices(facing down, installed) in them, so let it loosen it up, spray each office to let anything drain out through the large mounting hole. Spray into the overflow tubes for the float bowls. Clear off any old gaskets with plastic tools, don’t want to scrape into the gasket lines, any o-rings, apply a little petroleum jelly.
Blast out everything with dry, compressed air, or buy canned air- don’t use wire in any offices/passages, it’ll enlarge them. Carb flat, Clean out the accelerator pump feed offices, toothbrush inside & flush, all will lead back to the float cavities(bowls)..
Do a finish blast & rag clean of the bowls, reinstall the annular boosters(barrels), primary/secondary.
Once you clean out all the areas, carb upside down, blast it good with cleaner, allowvto drip dry. Little Vaseline on the accelerator pump seal, reinstall.
Shake the floats to be sure no fuel inside, -reinstall, needle/seat/clip and slide pivot pin through.to capture the assembly.
Flip the cab so the floats sag out, you shouldn’t be able to get any air in by losing into the inlet, flip back right side up, blow again, should have no resistance
Once you’ve got all the needles, offices clean, carefully reinstall the carb top, slowly so the rods fall into the holes.
Replace the S hook on the accerator Pump.
Install a clear/replaceable element fuel filter, can fire it off the clean gas Can with the lines replaced, Fuel pressure limit to 6psi, an edelbrock Pump will yield that, any more & it may overflow. If this occurs, buy a Pressure regulator(limiter). Holleys can handle a tad more pressure, 5-8lbs, Edelbrock Pump will keep it regulated.
Use a combo of this & the pic’s & Data, any questions, please feel free to ask!

Rebuilding And Tuning An Edelbrock Carburetor - Hot Rod

Rebuilding and tuning an Edelbrock carburetor.

www.hotrod.com

Best of luck, should have no issues.
-John

Update:

So this weekend I took apart and cleaned out the carb per your instructions. There was a LOT of rust/gunk in there- especially in the passageway between the two fuel bowls. Cleaned everything out and blasted dry with compressor. Installed a new fuel pump (oe style 6.5 psi makes 25gph). And just to be safe, ran 3/8 rubber fuel hose from plastic gas can, to filter, to pump, to carb (to be sure no possibility of rust) until new fuel line comes. Cranked it a few times into cup before re-connecting to carb- gas looked good not rust or particles, and was pumping strong. Re-connected to carb and tried to start and....nothing. Sounded like it wanted to kick over several times but would not. Tried some starter fluid and adjusting the fuel/air mixture screws (since I took them out to clean) and seemed to make no difference. At least before it would kick over, and then run rough...but now I get nothing. Thoroughly confused. I pulled off one of the plugs and it looked pretty black, so thinking maybe try cleaning those up (even though replaced not long ago). Any other ideas of something I’m missing? Any adjustments I’m not thinking about on the carb?

Thanks,
Pat

 

[08GT500]

Hello Pat,
Sorry to hear you’re still having troubles, i’ll not quit helping you until conclusion, apologize for not checking back earlier. Good to hear all the media is removed from the Carb.
Skipping that step would only have lead to major headaches down the road.
I’ll list a few things to try, then we’ll figure out what exactly is occurring,-k. Should be firing solidly off starting fluid.
All vacuum lines reconnected as they were previously, any uncertainty?
1) Remove/clean/regal/inspect/all plugs. Are any wet with fuel? If any plug wires were disturbed, Check they land correctly on the cap, and to each spark plug, per firing order.
!!>2) Does the accelerator pump send fuel strongly through the squirters (located in the primaries, x1, each barrel) when you cycle the Carb by hand? Shows the float bowl is allowing fuel to fill the primary bowl. Sometimes a “tap” to the side of the Carb with the plastic end of a screwdriver will initiate this.
3) With either a few good squirts by pressing the pedal and the accelerator pump feeding fuel to the motor, or one good squirt of starting fluid into the Carb’s open throttle plates, the motor should minimally fire on most/all cylinders for a few seconds. providing the throttle is open a bit to allow air into the mixture.
Try opening the throttle, slightly. Only a few things can really prevent this:

A) Fuel is overflowing through the Carb’s overflow drowning the motor, fouling plugs. Can you smell fuel, plugs wet with fuel?
B) Spark Timing extremely far off, check routing of plug wires, fouled spark plugs, wires on cap in correct firing order per cam card.
C) Extremely weak spark. Check via spark tester or plug on grounded surface, should be a fat, blue spark.
D) Large vacuum leak. Under carb or to a line that’s disconnected, incorrectly connected or damaged.
E) Not enough oxygen, open the idle screw, slightly & try starting fluid.
If you didn’t remove plug wires, i’d check as correct regardless. Verify Firing order is delegated by the Cam used. Only (2) possible SBF firing orders.
Verify you have both mixture screws open off seat >/= 2.5 turns, remember in (clockwise)= leaner, out (C.C.wise) = richer. We’ll set this once you’re running again.
Please post what you find & I’ll repost within the day, I’ll check 2X daily for your response(s).
Any questions please don’t hesitate to ask about anything!
Best of luck!
-John

 

[08GT500]

Edit.<Doh!>.#2.. “The needle and seat atop the float is allowing fuel to fill the primary float bowl, if the accelerator pump is functioning.”
-John

 

[pb26518]

Hello Pat,
Sorry to hear you’re still having troubles, i’ll not quit helping you until conclusion, apologize for not checking back earlier. Good to hear all the media is removed from the Carb.
Skipping that step would only have lead to major headaches down the road.
I’ll list a few things to try, then we’ll figure out what exactly is occurring,-k. Should be firing solidly off starting fluid.
All vacuum lines reconnected as they were previously, any uncertainty?
1) Remove/clean/regal/inspect/all plugs. Are any wet with fuel? If any plug wires were disturbed, Check they land correctly on the cap, and to each spark plug, per firing order.
!!>2) Does the accelerator pump send fuel strongly through the squirters (located in the primaries, x1, each barrel) when you cycle the Carb by hand? Shows the float bowl is allowing fuel to fill the primary bowl. Sometimes a “tap” to the side of the Carb with the plastic end of a screwdriver will initiate this.
3) With either a few good squirts by pressing the pedal and the accelerator pump feeding fuel to the motor, or one good squirt of starting fluid into the Carb’s open throttle plates, the motor should minimally fire on most/all cylinders for a few seconds. providing the throttle is open a bit to allow air into the mixture.
Try opening the throttle, slightly. Only a few things can really prevent this:

A) Fuel is overflowing through the Carb’s overflow drowning the motor, fouling plugs. Can you smell fuel, plugs wet with fuel?
B) Spark Timing extremely far off, check routing of plug wires, fouled spark plugs, wires on cap in correct firing order per cam card.
C) Extremely weak spark. Check via spark tester or plug on grounded surface, should be a fat, blue spark.
D) Large vacuum leak. Under carb or to a line that’s disconnected, incorrectly connected or damaged.
E) Not enough oxygen, open the idle screw, slightly & try starting fluid.
If you didn’t remove plug wires, i’d check as correct regardless. Verify Firing order is delegated by the Cam used. Only (2) possible SBF firing orders.
Verify you have both mixture screws open off seat >/= 2.5 turns, remember in (clockwise)= leaner, out (C.C.wise) = richer. We’ll set this once you’re running again.
Please post what you find & I’ll repost within the day, I’ll check 2X daily for your response(s).
Any questions please don’t hesitate to ask about anything!
Best of luck!
-John

John,

I think I may have it resolved. Tonight for the heck of it I decided to throw back on the original distributor I had lying around, and it fired up on the first turn! Thinking it must have been something faulty in the distributor I had. I did have some pretty serious backfires/flame ups through the carb- thinking that may be a matter of adjusting the timing? Or leftover fuel in the carb from last time I tried? I tried to align the rotator (not sure on terminology) of the distributor the same as it was previously- maybe I’m a groove off?

Pat

 

[08GT500]

Hi Pat,
Awesome! I’m happy to hear you’re running, and is always useful if you have spares that you’re confident are functional.
This Dizzy also running points/condenser?
A flame through a Carbureted engine, especially if you have ether and fuel residing within the motor during a no or weak spark & now it has good spark, is not abnormal. That being said, yes- you’ll still want to reset your initial timing with a light.
Cam card info, will help set up best initial timing & map out max advance, jets, to extract every pony from your pony.(after the basic’s are complete).
Any questions, please don’t hesitate. No such thing as a stupid question, only the one’s have not verbalized are “stupid”.
As mentioned previous, Carb flames occurring made me look like the typical Wile E.Coyote when a bomb goes off in his face..black face, singed brows, lashes, hair, whole 9 yards, + a highly bruised ego, lol!
I’d believed you’d get the Carb clean & back together correctly, now you are familiar with the Edelbrock Carb, it’s predecessor- the Carter AFB (identical), and the Holley years back. Congrat’s!
I’d thought the Carb wasn’t a factor with your no-start issue, no reason it should respond to starting fluid, your comments previously solidified this with similar circumstance, and I quote:
” I sprayed starting fluid and it would not light off, making me think it was Ignition”.
You were, indeed Correct. but a compound fuel/spark issue, and it’s almost beat. This spark issue may cure the hard acceleration hesitation you described previously, I suggest a timing recurve.
It’s near impossible to get dead accurate initial timing without a light, should leave nothing to chance.
If you’re running points, set them at .017, Dwell at 30. Dwell gives the Coil maximum time to deliver the strongest spark across the Plugs electrode gap.
I’d listed below how to set your Carb’s mixture screws correctly, it’s quite simple...
The idea here is you want your idle to rise by richening (Clockwise rotation)
the mixture, one side at a time. You’ll need to adjust your idle stop screw. Spark time the Car first,.Do below in (2) stages:

1) Start the car, let it warm up for 5 minutes, install a vacuum gauge to the motors inlet. Set both mixture screws 2.5 turns out from fully in (Clockwise in)
2)Set the idle screw so your idles around 1,000 rpm’s
3) Left mixture screw, turn it slowly CCW (richer) until you hear the motors idle peak at its highest..
4) Adjust your idle back down to 1,000 rpm’s.
5) Repeat this with the right mixture screw.....
- Below is your finish tweaking...
Remember, Mixture screws are Clockwise= leaner, C.C.Wise= Richer mixture.
1A) Start the car, set idle at 600RPM’s, if you have RPM indication on your timing light, use it. If not, turn the left mixture screw in & listen carefully for a 30-40RPM drop, reset idle back to 600RPM’s, turn the right screw in (Clockwise, more lean) and hit the same 30-40RPM drop, set idle to 700(or preference). That’s all it is.
Take it for a few runs, see how she runs. View Plug electrodes to read what’s occurring

TIming:
It’s night & day differences when all your Ignition timing is accurately set, including Initial timing, total mechanical advance, rate of mechanical advance, or “curving” etc. The Dizzy you’d installed, was that OE? Yr?
These springs for the mech. advance inside might work out better. Vac. advance is for loads without RPM, like hills, etc., like a cruise control keeping the car speed accurate despite load. Some vacuum advance diaphragms are adjustable, set screw in the vacuum line port.
Centrifugal weights/springs/limiters alone in Dizzy for mechanical advance won’t alone help in these instances.
Avg. varies between 6-14 degrees for your initial timing, I’d start @10 degrees. Escalate slowly. Some motor’s & combo’s like more than others, fuel Mfg. also plays a role.
Curving it is easy, and distributor weights, Springs, bushing kits allow you to tweak timing very accurately.
15-30HP may be yours for timing correctly.set. If interested, can locate some for you, on a typical site. 25-40$.
Can you pls. snap a shot of it the Cam Card & post(?) What Octane level(s) of fuel are at the pumps near you?
Octane:
Have 93 in Mass., but the E85 is a proverbial goldmine. 30-40% more Fuel is required, but yields levels of over 100 Octane.. alluring! Any motor can convert.
Old school muscle uses no variable electronic timing timing, knock sensors, Variable Cam Timing, etc., & Lower Octane is used for low compression, high for high.
Some late model EEC controlled Gas Motors run equal to/upward of 11.5:1 C.R. on pump Octane without detonating, per ability to pull Timing & other parameters at the second it needs to.
Timing:
You’ll need to mark your balancer at TDC, 10,14 Deg.increments, with a light, time it at 10 degrees, vacuum advance line removed/plugged.
Not certain of your C.Ratio, I’ll list typical:
With pump fuel, Normally aspirated motor, full advance should be all in/by 2,500-2,750 rpm, a 9.5:1 289/302 motor runs best at about 38-42 Deg.of advance, 36-40 Degrees for a 9.6:1-10.5:1 Motor, 11.5:1 up shouldn’t generally require more than 35 degrees.

-I pull Plugs after a good run & pull over and change springs, weights it in the breakdown lane, and that’s how it’s done- trial/error. Reading the Plugs, how she runs.
Every motor is different, even stock may differ, one to the next.


Notes:
You likely know these, but- just in case. Subjects worth bringing up > 1 time.
You may have a little fuel in your oil, from the no- starts, if the oil reeks of fuel- replace it & the Filter, Oe, K&N, Mobil 1.
Uncertain of engine mileage..(?)
Pennzoil’s high mileage synthetic w/HDPE, Zinc, works well, cost reasonable.
If you’re not running Synthetic, consider it. 92% less wear is a good thing.
I’d clean every plug, re-start from scratch. You'd mentioned Tank & lines are coming, can add.another chassis mount, inline filter, if desired.
I run Mechanical Oil Pressure gauges on any motor I care about, old school, accurate.
Nice & neat in a pillar mount. Just a friendly FYI.
Please let me know if you have any questions. Good luck!
- John

 

[08GT500]

Edit, 1A) Set your idle at 1,000 RPM’s, not 600, then proceed with the mixture tweaking.