Cervini fiberglass hatch lids

89MustangGX · Oct 21, 2004

88stangmangt said:
LOOK AT A NASCAR THAT ARE ALL TIN........ AND FAST AS HELL.......IF YOU HAVE FATTER TIRES BIGGER RIMS AND THE WHOLE 9 YARDS ON THE SUSPENSION SIDE YOU SHOULD COME OUT EQUAL BECAUSE OF THE BIGGER RIMS/TIRES AND ADDED SUSPENSION PARTS.

Doesn't the full race tube-chassis throw the comparison off a little?

stangbear427 · Oct 22, 2004

I believe so. He is right though, to an extent. The hatch provides next to nothing structurally, which is why most prefer the notch for a real racecar buildup. That obnoxious use of capitals would have gotten him banned from Corner Carvers though.

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 22, 2004

88stangmangt, why is it do you think that these ratty old steel hatches do rattle like that? It's because of body flex that it’s coming into contact with the hatch that you see paint worn off the edges and hear these things clunking away all of the time. The big heavy steel hatch does help some for stiffening the back end up, even if it’s not soundly affixed to the body. I'm not saying it's the replacement for a good set of crossed braced sub frames, a rear strut tower brace, or a cage, but it does provide some structural integrity none the less. More so than a flimsy fiberglass hatch. Don’t believe me….go take a stock H/B for a ride with no hatch and experience that! I tried mine out with no hood and hatch when I was first putting it together and couldn’t believe the wheel hop! I’m not making this stuff up it’s been shown time and time again that the hatch does provide some form of structural integrity. Much like having a windshield in the front of the vehicle does. You can replace the hatch with a fiberglass unit if you’d like, why should I care. I’m not punking anyone out for wanting to do that. Just be aware of the drawbacks!

And 88stangmangt….you’re not a newbie…..take your caps lock off!?!

Paully's5.0 · Oct 22, 2004

Gearbanger 101 said:
I’m not making this stuff up it’s been shown time and time again that the hatch does provide some form of structural integrity. Much like having a windshield in the front of the vehicle does.

I would like to see the studies/arguments done on how a the hatch provides structural integrity. Although I do commend you for the "does provide SOME form" you save yourself no matter what.

That hatch attatches with what, two hinges and a latch? Three points? And that fact that you are comparing it to a windshield which attatches EVERYWHERE around the edge to the car is ridculous. Of course the windshield is going to help with the stucture. Hell if the hatch was welded at those three spots I could see your argument, but its not. Hinges have slop, so does that cheap latch. Changing to fiberglass would not do anything to the strucural aspect of the car.

How fast where you going when you drove your car without a hatch or hood? Could the wind have affected the handling? How much weight did you take off of your rear end without the hatch? I'd expect to have more wheelhop if I took the hatch off.

crazypete · Oct 22, 2004

As long as the thread is resurrected.....

and mostly on topic...

What about lexan/ non-glass rear windows? Are these any good in a regular service street car.

After removing the hatch a few times before, I'd be glad to be rid of that horrible mass of weight. I need an assistant when mounting that thing or I get gilloutined.

NCStang86 · Oct 22, 2004

5.0 resto has one for $379

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 22, 2004

Paully's5.0 said:
That hatch attatches with what, two hinges and a latch? Three points?

Correction. That hatch is "affixed at 3-points, but is physically attached all of the way around. It is after all sealed to all edges of the opening. It doesn't have to be bolted all of the way around to provide an effective rigid support. The hatch just isn't resting on the back end of your car, it's pulled tightly against the rear seal to provide some clamping force against it to prevent leaks as well as provide some structural integrity. The very fact that the back end flexes (even more so) like gangbusters without a hatch proves my point. The steel hatch is still far more sturdy that the fiberglass hatch in every sense. Although still better than running with no hatch at all, a fiberglass hatch won't provide the same kind of structural integrity or clamping force a steel one would.

crazypete said:
What about lexan/ non-glass rear windows? Are these any good in a regular service street car.

As for the lexan rear windows, they're great for racing purposes (and required in most cases) but say goodbye to your rear window defroster as well as a million annoying scratches that it will accumulate over the years. It will eventually turn white with all of the superficial scratches and then yellow from the UV rays.

bigblokstang · Oct 22, 2004

I was thinking about getting one for my 84 due to the original one is rusting at the lip seam (imagine that!), and living in Ohio, i wouldnt want to take a chance on prepping and painting another steel one to have the damn thing blister up in a year, and look like ass. the thing i wonder the most is, do they seal well or would it tend to "lift" a tad at higher speeds? also do you think it will "lift" when passing a semi in the opposite direction? A buddy of mine had a set of louvers on his 86 (yes i said louvers!! lol.) and they flew off after passing a truck going the oppsite direction!! he was pi$$ed, but the car looked sooo much better w/o them!

Gearbanger 101 · Oct 22, 2004

bigblokstang said:
I was thinking about getting one for my 84 due to the original one is rusting at the lip seam (imagine that!), and living in Ohio, i wouldnt want to take a chance on prepping and painting another steel one to have the damn thing blister up in a year, and look like ass. the thing i wonder the most is, do they seal well or would it tend to "lift" a tad at higher speeds? also do you think it will "lift" when passing a semi in the opposite direction? A buddy of mine had a set of louvers on his 86 (yes i said louvers!! lol.) and they flew off after passing a truck going the oppsite direction!! he was pi$$ed, but the car looked sooo much better w/o them!

Unless the hatch is gel-coated before you buy it, prepping it could be more of a PITA than that of a steel one. Fiberglass tends to soak up paint and primer like a sponge and they’re tough to finish properly. That's why everyone wants a mint to paint an all fiberglass car like a Corvette. The prep on them is so much more involved. That being said, you shouldn't experience any lift while flying down the road, or passing a truck considering the amount of down force being applied to them when you're at speed.

88stangmangt · Oct 22, 2004

well now that everyone got my point i wont use all caps.........a hood will provide way more support than a hatch....plain and simple.......they were even sloppy from the factory........it would have more support if it was bolted in 4 spots but 3 cause to much flex(made that way by ford so it wold flex and give so the hatch didnt warp and loose paint )..... and you cant even compare a notch because they are exempt to this arguement.............not trying to clash with you........just saying...........but no a fiberglass wouldnt be any better but you you have added suspension and bigger tires your adding more weight than you ever took off with that hatch...but for a dd you lose?.................

88stangmangt · Oct 22, 2004

bigblokstang said:
I was thinking about getting one for my 84 due to the original one is rusting at the lip seam (imagine that!), and living in Ohio, i wouldnt want to take a chance on prepping and painting another steel one to have the damn thing blister up in a year, and look like ass. the thing i wonder the most is, do they seal well or would it tend to "lift" a tad at higher speeds? also do you think it will "lift" when passing a semi in the opposite direction? A buddy of mine had a set of louvers on his 86 (yes i said louvers!! lol.) and they flew off after passing a truck going the oppsite direction!! he was pi$$ed, but the car looked sooo much better w/o them!

depends how tight the lock on the bottom of the hatch is i guess................

stangbear427 · Oct 22, 2004

crazypete said:
As long as the thread is resurrected.....

and mostly on topic...

What about lexan/ non-glass rear windows? Are these any good in a regular service street car.

After removing the hatch a few times before, I'd be glad to be rid of that horrible mass of weight. I need an assistant when mounting that thing or I get gilloutined.

In my state, they are illegal in a regular service street car.

The argument for removing weight is a good one, however- it doesn't do any good unless it's removed from the right places. The rear of the car isn't where Mustangs need to go on an diet, they are seriously off balance and nose heavy. If anything, they are too light in the rear as it is. Anyone who knows how to set up a racecar takes everything that they need in the front which is relocatable and moves it to the back. This still won't fix the problem, so more weight needs to be shaved from the front. This is true wether you want to carve corners or just go strait. In AutoX you want it 50/50 front to rear. Removing weight from the rear would be disasterous as they are front heavy anyway, unless so much has been shaved off the front that trimming the rear can be afforded. Building the perfect corner carver involves completely gutting it of anything not essencial to racing to get it as light as possible- then they add weights back to the corners as needed to balance 50/50. Guess which corners get the most added? Even in drag racing, everything from the spring rates to the shock valving is designed to transfer what weight there is to the rear on the launch, because that's where you want it in order to hook hard. Just because it was a perfect opportunity for experimenting, before I installed my stereo I made several runs with my empty trunk. Then I installed well over 200lbs of stereo equipment into the hatch, and ran them again. General rule of thumb is that every 100lbs of weight you shave off the car should net you one tenth of a second in the quarter. So, I could logically expect to run at least two tenths slower with the extra 200+ in the trunk. It didn't affect my average even one tenth, not one run was slower, and a few of them were a tenth faster than any previous runs- same day, same weather, same place, much heavier.

As for the structural integrity of the hatchless car- done that too. Not without a windshield mind you, and I believe that's where most of the difference was made. When I was getting it painted I had the opportunity to run up the road for gas, and aside from a little extra wind, it felt the same in curves and launches, no extra creaks or noticable twisting, handled fine right up into 4th gear. Didn't launch as well, which is no surprise- there wasn't any weight over the rear tires. With a built rear suspension there wasn't any wheelhop, just didn't want to stick. Refer back to the weight placement issue, this makes perfect sense. Now, take off the hatch and the windshield, and you create a regular windtunnel. It's going to try to take off like an airplane- it'll be all over the place. Of course it'll ride like crap, nevermind that the windshield is far more rigid than the two spindly A pillars. The fact that the hatch has a weatherstip around it means nothing in terms of rigidity, that would only make a difference if the seal were a vaccuum, which obviously it isn't or we couldn't breath inside. The three points that are connected don't offer any more torsional support than a heim joint. If they did, nobody would blow a hatch open on a hard launch, which isn't uncommon on the strip- people blow them open all the time. Hell, I've done it on the street and I have full length subs welded in, even with the latch adjusted so tight it's hard to close it. Ford designed it that way as a safety issue- when it's stressed it pops. It is supposed to. Now, if it were a four point pin on, maybe- but I don't see many streetcars with pin on hatches.

stangbear427 · Oct 22, 2004

Stangman, who aren't you trying to clash with? Just wondering 'cause I mentioned the notch, but I think we're in agreement here...?

88stangmangt · Oct 22, 2004

stangbear427 said:
Stangman, who aren't you trying to clash with? Just wondering 'cause I mentioned the notch, but I think we're in agreement here...?

ya we are i wish i had a notch......im just saying ford bolts the hatch in three spots for a reason.........so it can flex and doesnt buckle and chip...but no one gets it...............???? i give up lets all get a pepboys wing and bolt it in place of the stock spoiler cause that is atleast what??? 4 more bolts to stiffen it up and im sure that d@mn cloth hanger weighs 5 pounds.......

stangbear427 · Oct 22, 2004

88stangmangt · Oct 22, 2004

stangbear427 said:

finally a man with some common sense........and a sense of humor........alot of people dont know all the $$ you have under that car.........

enyawix · Sep 30, 2006

MustangMulch said:
Yeah sounds like a bad idea. I'd put the money towards suspension.

No do it and move the battery to the trunk

stangbear427 · Oct 1, 2006

Um... props for using the search function- but since the last post was almost two years ago, I doubt he's still seeking advice on the issue.

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