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  • 1979 - 1995 (Fox, SN95.0, & 2.3L) -General/Talk-
  • Fox 5.0 Mustang Tech

Cleveland headed windsor

  • Thread starter Thread starter 351wcoupe
  • Start date Start date Jan 29, 2004

351wcoupe

New Member
Feb 13, 2003
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Jan 29, 2004
#1
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #1
Just wondering if anybody here has done this swap?
What info have you guys found?
I have all of my part numbers except for the head gasket number.
 

gearheadboy

15 Year Member
Jan 15, 2003
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Greencastle Pa
Jan 29, 2004
#2
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #2
Do a web search for CLEAVOR if you haven't already. The intake is the hard part. It'll be a screamer! best of both worlds.
 

gearheadboy

15 Year Member
Jan 15, 2003
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Greencastle Pa
Jan 29, 2004
#3
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #3
Hey I bumped into this page full of useful info on that subject and others. It really has alot of info for you. http://www.angelfire.com/ar/dw42/sbf.htm
 

351wcoupe

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Feb 13, 2003
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#4
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #4
Thats a ton of reading but what I've read looks good.

Here's the one that I found.
Head swap
 

351wcoupe

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#5
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #5
Anyody know what pushrods to use?
 
D

dustang90

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Jan 29, 2004
#6
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #6
There were motors with those heads from the factory, they are called 351 modified. Alot of trucks had those. But you will have to do machining to get the antifreeze passages to work to put cleveland heads on a windsor motor
 
S

SmockDoiley

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Jun 14, 2003
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Jan 29, 2004
#7
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #7
I did it, and its a blast. Its not really hard and its pretty cheap too. The info I found some great info on some sites but I'm on my work comp right now so I'll post them when I get home. The intake isnt that hard and you have 2 choices. www.pricemotorsports.com which has adapters to mount any intake you can think of to a clevor headed windsor, or this other site, again I need to get the name, but they have the original B&A intakes brand new. They run about $450 and they have both the Track and Street Boss intakes. That site shows you how to modify the heads but basically the larger water hole on the surface of the heads needs to get drilled out so you have fit a freeze plug in it. Then you drill a hole on the intake side so that water will run through the intake instead of back into the head since Clevelands dont originally have a provision to push water through the intake like Windsors. There are some new steam holes that need to be drilled out too, and as for the pushrods just use a checker to see what you need since you should do that with any head change project. Hope this helps out. If your doing a 302-351 use the 2V heads, but use 4V's for the windsor strokers with a 392 or 408. I have 4V heads on a 427 stroker and it works great because the engine is large enough to use those runners.
 
D

DblAdigger

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Aug 25, 2003
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Jan 29, 2004
#8
  • Jan 29, 2004
  • #8
Wrong!

dustang90 said:
There were motors with those heads from the factory, they are called 351 modified. Alot of trucks had those. But you will have to do machining to get the antifreeze passages to work to put cleveland heads on a windsor motor
Click to expand...
351M/400 engines are NOT Windsor blocks. They belong to the Cleveland family with the extended front of the block, flat steel timing covers, and verticaly oriented fuel pump bolts.
 

jrichker

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#9
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #9
What headers will fit the 351c 2v heads? Will the 302 headers work, or is this a speciality item like the intake manifold adapters?
 
S

SmockDoiley

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#10
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #10
there are some companies in the back of the 5.0 mags that make custom headers or you can see if there are shorty cleveland headers and if so if they may clear everything in your mustang. If they make shorty headers for Clevelands which I doubt they'd probably clear everything.
 

351wcoupe

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#11
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #11
SmockDoiley said:
I did it, and its a blast. Its not really hard and its pretty cheap too. The info I found some great info on some sites but I'm on my work comp right now so I'll post them when I get home. The intake isnt that hard and you have 2 choices. www.pricemotorsports.com which has adapters to mount any intake you can think of to a clevor headed windsor, or this other site, again I need to get the name, but they have the original B&A intakes brand new. They run about $450 and they have both the Track and Street Boss intakes. That site shows you how to modify the heads but basically the larger water hole on the surface of the heads needs to get drilled out so you have fit a freeze plug in it. Then you drill a hole on the intake side so that water will run through the intake instead of back into the head since Clevelands dont originally have a provision to push water through the intake like Windsors. There are some new steam holes that need to be drilled out too, and as for the pushrods just use a checker to see what you need since you should do that with any head change project. Hope this helps out. If your doing a 302-351 use the 2V heads, but use 4V's for the windsor strokers with a 392 or 408. I have 4V heads on a 427 stroker and it works great because the engine is large enough to use those runners.
Click to expand...

I found the pricemotorsports page last night too and I'll probably go that route and get adaptors because I have a bunch windsor intakes.
Here's what I have: 4 351M, 1 400M, 1 set 4v cleveland heads, 4 tall deck windsors. I can't buy but I have access to 302 Boss heads for reference.

So far I have plugged the water jackets and bolted them to a junk 351w.
I found that the pre-74 "tall deck" 351w 72-73(i think) has the same crank specs as the 400 (except stroke ) If I could use the 400 crank It should be at 408ci but would rods would I use? The only pistons I could find are the KB 110 and kb 117. These are for stock specs bottom ends and hypereutectic. Does anybody else make them forged and for a 408?

Thanks guys I think its going to happen now.
 

351wcoupe

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#12
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #12
Also what RPM range are the 2V vs the 4V?
 
S

SmockDoiley

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#13
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #13
Using a 400M crank, and Chrysler rods you'd have a 427. With the 400M, you need to mill the snout so its the same as the windsor cranks. As for pistons, there are companies that do make pistons for this swap. Unless you are going to use a power adder, the hypers will work fine. Think of 2V's and 4V's like AFR165/185's or 225's. Using 4V's on a 408 will help make it streetable because the size of the engine compared to a 302. Power will most likely be 2500-7000. 2V's on a 408 will run nice but wont make as much power. You'll probably start to die out at 6000rpms. This is just a rough but should give you a rough idea.
 

351wcoupe

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Feb 13, 2003
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#14
  • Jan 30, 2004
  • #14
SmockDoiley said:
Using a 400M crank, and Chrysler rods you'd have a 427. With the 400M, you need to mill the snout so its the same as the windsor cranks. As for pistons, there are companies that do make pistons for this swap. Unless you are going to use a power adder, the hypers will work fine. Think of 2V's and 4V's like AFR165/185's or 225's. Using 4V's on a 408 will help make it streetable because the size of the engine compared to a 302. Power will most likely be 2500-7000. 2V's on a 408 will run nice but wont make as much power. You'll probably start to die out at 6000rpms. This is just a rough but should give you a rough idea.
Click to expand...

my dyno programmed agreed with you pretty close. I don't plan on driving this on the street but I didn't think I would need the 4V heads. What chrysler rods work I have a bunch o big and small chrysler engines here too.
What do you mean when you say mill the snout?
do you have any part numbers or prices on swap pistons?
 

351wcoupe

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Feb 13, 2003
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Feb 2, 2004
#15
  • Feb 2, 2004
  • #15
351wcoupe said:
my dyno programmed agreed with you pretty close. I don't plan on driving this on the street but I didn't think I would need the 4V heads. What chrysler rods work I have a bunch o big and small chrysler engines here too.
What do you mean when you say mill the snout?
do you have any part numbers or prices on swap pistons?
Click to expand...
ttt
 

siege

New Member
Feb 23, 2003
651
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Peoria, AZ
Feb 5, 2004
#16
  • Feb 5, 2004
  • #16
hmm...anybody got any flow numbers for these heads? seems like they might be a good/cheaper alternative to a lot of the aluminum heads out there (especially for a budget 331 maybe? )
 

351wcoupe

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Feb 13, 2003
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Feb 8, 2004
#17
  • Feb 8, 2004
  • #17
siege said:
hmm...anybody got any flow numbers for these heads? seems like they might be a good/cheaper alternative to a lot of the aluminum heads out there (especially for a budget 331 maybe? )
Click to expand...
This ones great

http://home.isoa.net/~mharrisj/fordhead.html
 
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