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  • SN95 4.6L Mustang Tech

cold start rattle

  • Thread starter Thread starter sonic281
  • Start date Start date Nov 4, 2011

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
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glendale az
Nov 4, 2011
#1
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #1
everytime i start my car in the morning it does a rattle or slight knock for a sec. What could it be iv heard its common in the 2v's its really starting to worry me
 
4

40oz

Member
Jan 9, 2006
499
3
18
Minneapolis
Nov 4, 2011
#2
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #2
I've had a bearing fail in a motor. And been present when a few were going/gone. In every case the issue was most apparent at high rpms. They would sound fine at idle and if you didn't rev high you might never know what was coming. On the other hand, an "issue" that presents itself only on a cold start for a few seconds at most is not an issue for concern. IMHO. YMMV, of course.

Mine does make a noise on some cold starts, like three rattles on the first three revolutions of the motor. It's now done it for years. I think it's the pistons loose in the bore combnined with an aftermarket oil filter that lets the oil drain totally out of the engine when it's off. I'm going back to motorcraft oil filters on the next oil change, but I don't really expect a change.
 

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
79
0
6
glendale az
Nov 4, 2011
#3
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #3
40oz said:
I've had a bearing fail in a motor. And been present when a few were going/gone. In every case the issue was most apparent at high rpms. They would sound fine at idle and if you didn't rev high you might never know what was coming. On the other hand, an "issue" that presents itself only on a cold start for a few seconds at most is not an issue for concern. IMHO. YMMV, of course.

Mine does make a noise on some cold starts, like three rattles on the first three revolutions of the motor. It's now done it for years. I think it's the pistons loose in the bore combnined with an aftermarket oil filter that lets the oil drain totally out of the engine when it's off. I'm going back to motorcraft oil filters on the next oil change, but I don't really expect a change.
Click to expand...

yeah iv heard its piston slap it dont make any noise in high rpm so your probaly right nothin to worry about.
 

trinity_gt

10 Year Member
Jan 31, 2003
3,125
81
99
Canada
Nov 4, 2011
#4
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #4
What oil filter are you using?
 

mransr

Founding Member
Nov 3, 2000
1,188
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98
Riverside, SoCal
Nov 4, 2011
#5
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #5
the timing chain can make a noise like that on a cold start up when it it starting to wear...but ya, what oil filter are you using?
 

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
79
0
6
glendale az
Nov 4, 2011
#6
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #6
mransr said:
the timing chain can make a noise like that on a cold start up when it it starting to wear...but ya, what oil filter are you using?
Click to expand...

i took it to a place for an oil change last cuz i dont have a filter wrench and couldnt get it off by hand like usual so i dont know what it is. but usually a fram should i use motocraft?
 

flstang65

10 Year Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,484
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94
SE Georgia
Nov 4, 2011
#7
  • Nov 4, 2011
  • #7
NOOOOO to the Fram. They like to use cardboard in their filters. I use (in this order based on availability) Ford Racing, Motorcraft, Mobil1 or Bosch
 

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
79
0
6
glendale az
Nov 5, 2011
#8
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #8
flstang65 said:
NOOOOO to the Fram. They like to use cardboard in their filters. I use (in this order based on availability) Ford Racing, Motorcraft, Mobil1 or Bosch
Click to expand...

What do the other ones use that hold the oil better? I just got my oil changed so i can change the filter
 
D

Deleted member 38176

Nov 5, 2011
#9
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #9
Possible plug backing out?
 

Stumbaugh

Member
May 13, 2010
903
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19
Russellville, Ar
Nov 5, 2011
#10
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #10
Nightfire said:
Possible plug backing out?
Click to expand...

If that was the case, it would be a tick at all times while the engine was running, not just on cold start up.
 

trinity_gt

10 Year Member
Jan 31, 2003
3,125
81
99
Canada
Nov 5, 2011
#11
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #11
sonic281 said:
What do the other ones use that hold the oil better? I just got my oil changed so i can change the filter
Click to expand...

Although I haven't tried them all, I have tried a number of different filters over the years in my car and the empirical evidence suggests that the Motorcraft FL820S is the best all-round filter for the modular.

All filters have anti-drainback valves in them that are intended to keep oil in the engine's oil passages from draining back into the pan when the engine is shut off. It seems like the FL820S is among the best at actually holding oil up in the engine. The noise you're hearing is likely being caused by this: It takes a few seconds for the oil pump to re-fill and pressurize the galleries.

You can buy the filter at a dealer and have the oil change place install it while doing a change...
 

wmburns

SN Certified Technician
Aug 14, 2009
5,892
514
204
Houston Texas
Nov 5, 2011
#12
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #12
The timing chains rattle on cold start is a very common issue. It's caused by the timing chain adjuster needing oil pressure to work. The rattle stops when oil pressure comes up.

If the rattle is excessive, this may be a sign that the timing chain shoes have worn through. Consider getting an oil filter cutter to cut open the oil filter. Look for bits of metal on the filter element.

After having a motor fail because of this same problem, I now routinely cut open the oil filters at every oil change.
 

flstang65

10 Year Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,484
135
94
SE Georgia
Nov 5, 2011
#13
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #13
The Ford Racing version just uses an improved anti drain back valve and better filter media.
 
4

40oz

Member
Jan 9, 2006
499
3
18
Minneapolis
Nov 5, 2011
#14
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #14
mransr said:
the timing chain can make a noise like that on a cold start up when it it starting to wear...but ya, what oil filter are you using?
Click to expand...

That's right, I had forgotten that. I had just assumed it was pistons until a post by wmburns mentioning the timing chains a little while ago. Just forgot about it when I posted.
 

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
79
0
6
glendale az
Nov 5, 2011
#15
  • Nov 5, 2011
  • #15
40oz said:
That's right, I had forgotten that. I had just assumed it was pistons until a post by wmburns mentioning the timing chains a little while go. Just forgot about it when I posted.
Click to expand...

Ill be doin cams and timing chain soon anyway so i wont worry too much
 
4

40oz

Member
Jan 9, 2006
499
3
18
Minneapolis
Nov 6, 2011
#16
  • Nov 6, 2011
  • #16
wmburns said:
The timing chains rattle on cold start is a very common issue. It's caused by the timing chain adjuster needing oil pressure to work. The rattle stops when oil pressure comes up.

If the rattle is excessive, this may be a sign that the timing chain shoes have worn through. Consider getting an oil filter cutter to cut open the oil filter. Look for bits of metal on the filter element.

After having a motor fail because of this same problem, I now routinely cut open the oil filters at every oil change.
Click to expand...

Is it a sign of wear? My car has 72,000 on it and it's eight years old. The parts can't last forever. Would it simply be smart to plan on replacing them sooner rather than later? It just seems a part that was formerly silent now makes a little noise...

If I'm going to spend the money I'd rather do it before it fails rather than after. What's the suggested replacement schedule for the chain guides? Is there any reasons for doing it early?

Thanks, BTW, because that noise has been bugging me.
 

1987stangman

Member
Jul 12, 2006
684
24
19
Nov 7, 2011
#17
  • Nov 7, 2011
  • #17
40oz said:
Is it a sign of wear? My car has 72,000 on it and it's eight years old. The parts can't last forever. Would it simply be smart to plan on replacing them sooner rather than later? It just seems a part that was formerly silent now makes a little noise...

If I'm going to spend the money I'd rather do it before it fails rather than after. What's the suggested replacement schedule for the chain guides? Is there any reasons for doing it early?

Thanks, BTW, because that noise has been bugging me.
Click to expand...

If it helps the engine in my car had 69k on it and a guide broke BUT the original NPI engine I took out was running strong with 143K on it and when I pulled the front cover everything looked great.

Replacing it early would just give you good piece of mind in this case.
 

sonic281

Member
Nov 1, 2011
79
0
6
glendale az
Nov 7, 2011
#18
  • Nov 7, 2011
  • #18
lately i been doing a quick tap on the starter twice evermorning then starting it and it dont make the noise
 
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