Confessions of A Car Salesman

i have friend that is a car salesman(2 actually). Told them about the site while ago. One works at local Nissan just got downright pissed about it. The other one works at Local Ford(who sold me my GT told me flat out that this story is just not true...

Nonetheless, I bought my 2001 GT with 21000miles on it fully loaded for $14500 over year ago. I didn't get ripped off for a change.
Now if I trade my GT in for left over 2003 Mach1(like I want to), I'm sure I'll get raped on trade in value...

I have been working in or at car dealerships since i was 15. To me its all about the manager and his/her ethics. Main problem with car buying is that people forget to realize that the dealerships are in it to make a profit. Most people forget to realize that these people do not work to sell you a car and not make any money. The problems occur when the dealership starts to go over the boundries of what an acceptable profit is.

PRIME EXAMPLE:

I recently tried to buy a used 03 cobra. Silver, 4400 miles all stock. I went one evening to ask a salesman what the price was. He leaves for a minute, gets some papers about the car and says we are looking to get about 27500 out of it. To me that was reasonable especially of they were gonna be willing to move a little on that price. I go a week later with my saleen and get it appraised for a POSSIBLE trade. They offered me 18100, which is sorta low, but what I expected at a dealer. I asked them to draw up some papers. They get back to me in like 15 minutes with a sale price for the cobra of 34450.

I laughed, and asked what about the price me and my freind, who was a witness, were quoted of 27500. they said that was impossible and he musta been thinking of the 01 silver cobra that they also had. (that last part scared me even more). I asked them if they thought i was stupid and then informed them that i knew most of the used car managers in atlanta, and could easily find out what they had in it.

The manager comes out and proceeds to tell me that they are treating the cobra like an as new car, so the price reflects that . So i responded by saying my saleen only has 27k and is basically mint. To me that is AS NEW, so i expect a re-estimate of my cars value near or at $40,000. At that point they were completely lost. So the manager actually says to me that eh does not need my business, because the car will sell itself. Great way to handle customers, he is the type that the article on edmunds warns us about.

Well i proceed to my fathers house who has been working with car dealers in atlanta since then 80's. He calls the manager, because the salesman tells me that the manager isnt taking me serious since i am young, and that an older person would get a better deal. Well after several minutes of arguing he tells me father 30000 walk out and 17900 for my saleen. To me that was still highway robbery, so we declined. Later that evening we found out that the manager had roughly 23000 invested in that car, and that they raped the previous owner on trade. So the original 27500 i was quoted woulda been a fair deal, for all parties involved.

Turns out that they still have the car, and its been sitting on their lot for almost 70 days now . I am now tempted go there and offer them 24500 walk out

Of course car dealers are in business to make a profit. That's not a bad thing. But remember that most of their revenue comes from service and parts. Again, that's fine with me.

Unfortunately, most, but not all, the stories we hear and experience about car salesmen are true.

Check out www.carbuyingtips.com and you'll be armed and ready. It comes from the edmunds story. Very long read, but it'll save you lots of money.

im not done reading but wow, very valuable information that guy gathered.

holly smoke...long reading is an understatement.

No kidding, I read that and just learned a lot I didn't know. Thanks a lot for posting that.

Some dealers are just plain ass. We have this local Toyota dealer, that was sited and find recently, that I guess they would tell you something like, for example, say this 2002 Celica GTS is $20000. then they will give you $5000 for your trade in, so you finance for $15000+tax(8%)=16200 with whatever the APR is basicaly came to something like $475 or something like that. so lady said okay, and she was just about sign the paper when she realized that on the final document, it said the her monthly was $550! abviously she questioned, and sales manager told them that something like "oh trade in had some dmg, have higher milege yada yada yada... "so they had to give her less money.which is fine, except they did not bother to tell her about it, and just changed number on the paper. If she signed paper, she would have been screwed. she reported that.
this was about 2 years ago. dealer lost franchize from toyota, was bought by someone else, they got huge fine, everything else. I hate car sales people. they only sees people as Dollar sign. I'm well aware that they are there to make money. but most are out to take full advantage of you.

Nowadays, only stupid people buy new cars buy going into the dealership showroom. Do all your shopping via the Internet, you'll probably get the car for invoice, and then you just drop in long enough to give them a check and pick up the car. Never again will I deal with a new car salesman...

HairyCanary said:

Nowadays, only stupid people buy new cars buy going into the dealership showroom. Do all your shopping via the Internet, you'll probably get the car for invoice, and then you just drop in long enough to give them a check and pick up the car. Never again will I deal with a new car salesman...

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sounds like you've had a bad experience buying a car.

To call someone "stupid" for walking into a dealership, test driving a car, having a proper demonstration of the car's features and history is rediculous.

Though, being a saleman myself, I wouldn't mind having ten people a month walk in, leave a check, and pick up a car...my job being only to hand the keys over. I'd be in heaven.

Mike

Yellow99Saleen said:

I have been working in or at car dealerships since i was 15. To me its all about the manager and his/her ethics. Main problem with car buying is that people forget to realize that the dealerships are in it to make a profit. Most people forget to realize that these people do not work to sell you a car and not make any money. The problems occur when the dealership starts to go over the boundries of what an acceptable profit is.

PRIME EXAMPLE:

I recently tried to buy a used 03 cobra. Silver, 4400 miles all stock. I went one evening to ask a salesman what the price was. He leaves for a minute, gets some papers about the car and says we are looking to get about 27500 out of it. To me that was reasonable especially of they were gonna be willing to move a little on that price. I go a week later with my saleen and get it appraised for a POSSIBLE trade. They offered me 18100, which is sorta low, but what I expected at a dealer. I asked them to draw up some papers. They get back to me in like 15 minutes with a sale price for the cobra of 34450.

I laughed, and asked what about the price me and my freind, who was a witness, were quoted of 27500. they said that was impossible and he musta been thinking of the 01 silver cobra that they also had. (that last part scared me even more). I asked them if they thought i was stupid and then informed them that i knew most of the used car managers in atlanta, and could easily find out what they had in it.

The manager comes out and proceeds to tell me that they are treating the cobra like an as new car, so the price reflects that...

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OK, stop right there. At that point, you should have told the manager, with the salesman, your friend, and as many other people present as possible, in no simple terms, that you did not appreciate these bull***** tactics and there was no way in hell you would buy the car, regardless what they offered for a sale price or trade in. Further more, that you would never spend another dime in that dealership for the rest of your life, that you would encourage any other potential new car buyers that crossed your path to do the same and that you would be contacting the Better Business Bureau (or whatever equvalent there is in Atlanta) to file a complaint.

As a consumer, these are the only real powers you have. There hasn't been a car built that justifies that kind of treatment. Since you live in a major center like Atlanta, there are plenty of other dealers that would appreciate your business. You wouldn't have much to loose if you alienated one of them.

Just my $0.02.

I agree completely. That was unjustifiable in my book.

Yep, I learned some of that stuff the hard way. I got ripped a new one when I bought my green 97 v6 a couple years back. I dealt with them on a montly payment basis and that wasn't so wise. It was also an impulse buy where I had originally just planned to look at cars, I ended up driving one home.

Now when I got my GT, I shopped around online for about 3 months and found a good deal on this one. I had to get a ride 3 and a half hours to pick it up, but I got it for 2500 under book. I probably could have got it for a bit less (he said yes to my first offer) But I still feel like I got a good deal. $12,500 for a 2001 GT with 43,000 miles.

Signal_12 said:

To call someone "stupid" for walking into a dealership, test driving a car, having a proper demonstration of the car's features and history is rediculous.

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Read my post again -- I never said that going in and doing a test drive made someone stupid -- I said *buying* a car by walking into a new car dealership was stupid. You will not ever get the best price or service that way, pure and simple. Test drive & talk all you want, when it comes time to buy go to the Internet or Fleet manager.

Dave

The last new car I bought was a 1986 Toyota MR2. This was bark in the dark ages before Al Gore invented the internet. I did some comparison shopping and knew exactly how much I was willing to pay for the car, leaving what was a fair profit for the dealer.

I called a salesman at Toyota Carlsbad (CA), told him the options I wanted and the price I would pay and said if he could find that car I would buy it. I had already been approved for the loan by my credit union (didn't matter since I paid it off two months later anyway).

He was stunned. He told me that nobody bought a car like this. My response was that he probably wanted to sell the car more than I needed to buy it. It was pretty much a take the deal or I'm walking except that I was on the phone.

Two days later I took delivery of the car at my price. Great little car. Too bad my ex got it. Oh well.

Today with all the info available on the net I can see no reason to put up with any BS from a salesman or sales manager. Do your homework, don't buy on impulse, and don't be in a hurry to have the latest and greatest toy. Oh, and don't pay over MSRP for the "privilege" of having the first 2005 Mustang on your block.

IMHO, Kevin sounds like a straight shooter and if I lived in VA I'd be talking to him. Same goes for signal12 and jackie chan in FL. And no, they didn't pay me to say that!

I love buying new cars....

I can't help it I love cars. I have bought and traded my share of vehicles in my lifetime and I'm only 28. Yes I know, bad financial decisions with negative equity etc....

But, I always end up in pretty good shape. When I want a new car I do the following:

1 Go to the manufacturers website and build your car and print the window sticker.
2. Go to www.edmunds.com or www.kbb.com and build the car to find out the invoice.
3. Deduct 3% of the MSRP from the invoice (3% is the typical Hold Back from Ford Chevy and Dodge).
4. Find out about the Current Consumer Rebates from the manufacturer including any rebates you could qualify for if you finance with the manufacturer. For example, Dodge currently has a $4500 rebate on their Rams if you finance through Chrysler Financial.
5. So take Invoice Minus Holdback Minus Rebates and that should be your starting point for a price.

Before the rebates, I will never pay more than $200 over invoice for a vehicle. If they don't take that offer, just tell them the dealership up the road will. It's amazing what a deal you can get when you have competitive offers in hand! For every guy like me, there are 12 more that pay damn near sticker for a car. They can afford to take a bath every now and again!

Just my .02 and experience.

Eric in Apex, NC

Good advice, Eric. Thanks.

ApexStang said:

I can't help it I love cars. I have bought and traded my share of vehicles in my lifetime and I'm only 28. Yes I know, bad financial decisions with negative equity etc....

But, I always end up in pretty good shape. When I want a new car I do the following:

1 Go to the manufacturers website and build your car and print the window sticker.
2. Go to www.edmunds.com or www.kbb.com and build the car to find out the invoice.
3. Deduct 3% of the MSRP from the invoice (3% is the typical Hold Back from Ford Chevy and Dodge).
4. Find out about the Current Consumer Rebates from the manufacturer including any rebates you could qualify for if you finance with the manufacturer. For example, Dodge currently has a $4500 rebate on their Rams if you finance through Chrysler Financial.
5. So take Invoice Minus Holdback Minus Rebates and that should be your starting point for a price.

Before the rebates, I will never pay more than $200 over invoice for a vehicle. If they don't take that offer, just tell them the dealership up the road will. It's amazing what a deal you can get when you have competitive offers in hand! For every guy like me, there are 12 more that pay damn near sticker for a car. They can afford to take a bath every now and again!

Just my .02 and experience.

Eric in Apex, NC

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You should qualify your statement. You wouldn't get a car for $200 over invoice in all cases. Alot depends on what kind of car it is, how popular, etc. MOST of the time you can get that.

I read the article and it seems in line with what I've dealt with over the years. My recent experiences have been positive, surprisingly. We bought a new SUV for invoice in January of 2003 because we did our homework. They had about 50 on the lot, it was January (slow) and it was toward the end of the month. It was a smaller dealership and he said he would give anybody that deal. We traded in a used SUV and got a decent price. Our used was in very good condition (as are all my vehicles) and considering I tried selling it for 3 months with not bites, it worked out.

My recent experience was with the dealer I bought my GTO from. They are a large dealer group and have changed the way they sell cars. A friend of mine from high school is the service manager there and told me how they do it. The salesman are paid a base salary and the commissions are a straight percentage, so it doesn't matter if they sell a real expensive SUV or a cheap econobox. The commissions are tiered, so for every X number of cars they sell, their percentage goes up. He said the salesman like it because its more fair and even, and they feel less pressure. Also, because this is a large dealer group, when you buy a car from a salesperson, he is your salesperson. The guy I am working with is really nice, low pressure. In fact, everyone at this dealership was low pressure. They handed me a sheet that showed their true invoice, the GMS price, the GM supplier price and the MSRP (which matched everything that I looked up). Anyway, I told them I will be buying a Mustang in the spring and he told me to call him when I'm ready and he will meet me at their Ford dealership and help me out. This was the first time I ever felt comfortable in a dealership. I'm actually looking forward to dealing with him. Plus, because I will be getting Xplan, he told that makes it easy for him. Its an easy sale for him and because the commission isn't based on the deal, its another sale and another commission.

Flyin Low 2

I agree that not in all cases are you going to get a deal that I explained. When newly redesigned cars come out that are all the rage, you better believe you are not going to get the perfect deal. Trust me, I understand that. I would not expect to order a 2005 Mustang and pay Invoice for it. That is partially why I am going to wait until 2006.

I read your reply and do agree that if you are able to find a dealership that is honest and willing to show you dealer invoice or the order sheet, you gonna have a great experience buying a car. Capital Ford in Raleigh is similar to this because of the high volume. Same with Crossroads Ford in Cary North Carolina.

I just feel that paying $100 or $200 over invoice is a good deal for both parties. It will be interesting to see how the dealers in my area will be handling the first 05 Mustangs.

Eric in NC