Considering purchase - advice needed

[cwa107]

Hello All,

I've been a classic Mustang enthusiast since building my first plastic 65 fastback model at the age of 7. I am now at the point in my life where actually owning one is financially feasible (I'm 27 and have a house, garage and a daily driver). I've actually subscribed to Classic Mustang magazine in the past and have drooled over these cars for years.

Anyway, I am considering purchasing a nicely restored all-original V8 coupe with about 900 miles since the restoration was completed. I have looked at the car online (I live about 5 miles from CJ's Pony Parts in PA) and am considering contacting the owner to actually look at it - but I want to be absolutely serious before I bother him. A close friend has already restored a 66 200cid coupe and would be accompanying me to help point out any issues with the car.

My questions for the group are these:

The owner is asking $10,500 which seems very competitive compared to others for sale in the area (Harrisburg, PA). Does this seem reasonable to those of you that have already been through this? I would be offering him asking price as I'm sure he at least that in the car (the car looks about as close to perfect as a 40-year old car can, albeit with a few loose ends, like a seat backing that is not attached and a non-body-colored dash (white - car is red). Are there any questions you would recommend asking?

As far as insurance goes, I would be putting "antique" plates on the car and would limit my driving to just a few hundred miles a year - mostly to shows (I live close to Carlisle) and weekend cruising. Otherwise, the car would be stored in a climate-controlled, locked garage year round - and not driven during the winter months. How much do you pay for classic insurance and what companies do you recommend?

I have read the FAQs on this board aimed at new owners or folks considering purchasing a car. I am very mechanically inclined and do my own work on mine and my wife's daily drivers - so I'm not intimidated by the mechanical work - however, I have never done rust repair or body work (nor do I have the tools to do so). Should I be worried?

Any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated - and apologies to those of you that have already answered these kinds of questions in the past.

TIA - Chris.

 

[gjz30075]

You're right about the rust. It's the major issue with any old car. The big question here is whether his definition of restoration aligns with yours.

You're going to want to check the cowls for rust. On the passenger side, you can open the door to the fresh air/heater box and either look up or put your arm up there and feel for wetness as someone pours water into the cowl to get it to drain out on the passenger side. Do the same for the driver's side but you'll have to use a mirror for that one. It's tough to get your arm up there.

Carry a awl and a magnet and go over that body with a fine tooth comb. If the body checks out, the rest is a piece of cake.

Good luck!

 

[cwa107]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. My friend Shawn (the one who restored the 66) also pointed out that there is some sort of cardboard duct near the cowl area that tends to rot and degrade with wetness and age. Not that it's an expensive part, but I've read that getting up under the dash is not a pleasent experience. Supposedly there's a replacement for the duct that is made out of sheet metal and should last for the life of the car once replaced.

I appreciate the advice and will be sure to get in there and check the cowl/heater box for leaks. Thanks again.

You're right about the rust. It's the major issue with any old car. The big question here is whether his definition of restoration aligns with yours.

You're going to want to check the cowls for rust. On the passenger side, you can open the door to the fresh air/heater box and either look up or put your arm up there and feel for wetness as someone pours water into the cowl to get it to drain out on the passenger side. Do the same for the driver's side but you'll have to use a mirror for that one. It's tough to get your arm up there.

Carry a awl and a magnet and go over that body with a fine tooth comb. If the body checks out, the rest is a piece of cake.

Good luck!

 

[MustangPaul]

I'd also check bottoms of the doors, behind each wheel and the floor pans for rust, too. If the cowl is shot, the floors follow suite pretty quickly.

BTW, there is over 180 spotwelds that have to be drilled out to get to the cowl. No joke. Bad cowl, walk right on past.

If you are serious, put a hose in there and turn on the water. It should be able to take it. ANY water inside under a "normal" flow, drop it like a bad habit.

--P

 

[65fsbkhipo]

Even with all the mechanicals and everything working properly, an above average paint job and daily driver interior...the price is too high. Granted, there will be regional variances but closer to a Mustang parts store is not relevant. I don't restore cooupe for this reason...they don't sell well. Anyone restoring a coupe mainly does it for the satisfaction of driving it for themselves as a keeper. Sounds like to me the owner is selling the coupe for what he has in it.

 

[cwa107]

Well, CJ's posted it on their site for the guy. I don't think it's relevant, but judging from asking prices I've seen in the past, $10,500 didn't sound bad for what is supposed to be "all original" and "completely restored". Of course, those aren't all coupes, but the last few fastbacks and convertables went for a small fortune (upwards of $15-$20K) You can see the car here:

http://www.cjponyparts.com/JimNowak.asp

So, you think $10,500 is a bit high? How much would you offer - maybe $9000? If it were a dealer, I'd haggle, but I know how much heart people put into these cars and I didn't want to be a jerk about it. Looks like a nice car. I will definitely check the cowl though - thanks all for the advice.

Just another comment - my friend Shawn was telling me that if they were never repaired, it's a very common weak spot because of corrosion. He said that on his car, he was able to repair with fiberglass from up under the dash, but it was a real pain to do.

Again, I appreciate everyone's comments and help.

Even with all the mechanicals and everything working properly, an above average paint job and daily driver interior...the price is too high. Granted, there will be regional variances but closer to a Mustang parts store is not relevant. I don't restore cooupe for this reason...they don't sell well. Anyone restoring a coupe mainly does it for the satisfaction of driving it for themselves as a keeper. Sounds like to me the owner is selling the coupe for what he has in it.

 

[charlies]

a fews years ago, my brother bought a perfectly restored, metallic green 67 f/b for the same price. there was absolutely nothing wrong with that car (until he totalled it). i think it was in better shape than that one your looking at.

thats seat back bothers me. why on earth would someone not fix that before taking pictures and posting them for sale on the internet? i mean, even duct tape it...anything. anyone else have a similar experience as me....

looking at the engine compartment and engine first, looks good.

move to the rear angle and front angle shots, looking for anything suspicious around the wheel wells, checking out the wheels. looks good so far.

looking at the interior shot, check out the white dash, looks good, nice relief to the all red interior. (gosh, if it were red too, you'd get a sunburn while driving it from the intense overwhelming red!).

then....BOOM, what's this? the seat back is loose. uh oh, what other of a million tiny things might not be quite right?


am i right?

 

[68 daily driver]

cwa107;

18 months ago I purchased a 1968 Coupe for 4,000.00. The interior had been restored and very recent paint job, a cheap 500.00 Earl Shieb paint job, but done well. The car had all original parts except for carpet, headliner, front seat covers. It had factory power steering, air condition. A friend, who restores mustangs went with me and inspected the car inside and out and underneith and told me it had only 1 minor rust spot on the bottom of the driver door that was 3/8 inch in dia. He also told me to pay the man his 4,000 and quit trying to jew him down because it would not be there as soon as another person looked at it.
I did not have to do this, but I had the engine and trans rebuilt because I wanted a 320hp 302 instead of the factory 230 hp and I had the C-4 beefed up to handled the additional hp. I have approx 8,000 in the vehicle now and it is a daily driver. My hunting partner is a retired mechanic and has saved me several thousand on the work we have done to the vehicle
The bottom line, if that seat back is the only problem you can find on the vehicle, the price may not be out of line for your area. Do what others have told you and make sure there is no other major problems such as rust or poor workmanship on the work that has been done and ask to see the receipts for parts and work if they have them, they should. Make a check on the engine for compression and any excessive oil use, do not take their word if they state the engine has been rebuilt, ask to see the receipts. If it appears that everything is correct about the restoration, and no forseeable major problems in the near future, it may be worth the asking price for a trouble free daily driver, you will have to make that decision.

68 Dailydriver

 

[65fsbkhipo]

No one has yet to ask what the VIN is. Sure it looks great but it I doubt if it is a real GT as depicted by the badges and strips. Additionally, standard GT's didn't come with pony interior...they were standard black. This car is a coupe with a make over.

 

[notny41]

I don't think it is a real GT. The paragraph states GT "syling" and it has drum brakes. I think the GT's had disc at least in front. I don't think that is the question here though. Assume it is not a factory GT.

How can they claim it had a complete restoration with that seat back hanging off in the back? Did it get yanked off since the resto? Man, even a hack should have been able to get the clips back on and in close to the right place - at least enough to get it to stay on if it had just been "completely" restored 900 miles ago... Wierd.

Sounds like you are pretty set on buying her though. It sure does look nice. Price does seem a little steep - I'd ask the seller if you can see the receipts so you really know what did have to be repaired. That doesn't seem out of line. Many people keep all of their receipts for repairs just so they know what they have into a vehicle.

 

[cwa107]

Yeah, I was surprised to see the white dash and seatback issue - considering how good the rest of the car looks. I mean, how difficult could it possbly be to paint the dash.

And at least one person commented on the all-red interior. That was one of the first things I'd do with it - start moving it piece by piece toward black.

But anyway, the consensus seems to be that $10,500 is a bit steep. I'm going to offer him $8000 and see if he bites. If not, I'm going to keep looking. I guess I fall in love with these things - I particularly like the wheels and the GT pieces. I was also happy to see the A/C. But you're right, something is not right when they miss something as small as a seat-back, especially when taking pictures.... jeesh - duct tape it or something!

Anyway, now that I have official approval from the wife, I'm going to give him a call and see if we can setup some time to take a look at it. I'm actually going to ask him if I can take it to my mechanic rather than check everything I need to right in front of him.

I'll let you know what I find... and, again thanks for all the advice. You've all been a great help.

I don't think it is a real GT. The paragraph states GT "syling" and it has drum brakes. I think the GT's had disc at least in front. I don't think that is the question here though. Assume it is not a factory GT.

How can they claim it had a complete restoration with that seat back hanging off in the back? Did it get yanked off since the resto? Man, even a hack should have been able to get the clips back on and in close to the right place - at least enough to get it to stay on if it had just been "completely" restored 900 miles ago... Wierd.

Sounds like you are pretty set on buying her though. It sure does look nice. Price does seem a little steep - I'd ask the seller if you can see the receipts so you really know what did have to be repaired. That doesn't seem out of line. Many people keep all of their receipts for repairs just so they know what they have into a vehicle.

 

[D Durden]

I look at it like this. He wants $10,500 for a car that you're ASSUMING alot about. A town away from me, there's a DECENT '66 V-8 coupe for $4k. It needs paint, generic body work, and some interior work. For $6,500, jeebus, it would be a showcar to some degree. No, not PERFECT, but a head-turner.

For +$10k for a V8 coupe, the sucker better be about perfect.

 

[mr-fixit]

I agree about the price being way too high. You would be paying top dollar for that coupe, at that price it should be of show quality. As others have said, you are in an area where Mustangs badly rust. Check for rust repairs carefully.
We are coming to the time of year,( before Christmas ) that Mustang prices traditionally drop. You might want to look around. There are a lot of Mustangs for sale in Eastern PA. I suggest you join a Mustang Club before you buy a car. The members are an great source of information on what to watch out for on Mustangs. Most club members are more then happy to help you find a car, and even drive their cars to help you decide what you really want. I belong to the Valley Forge Club, and being a member, you tend to hear of good cars that come up for sale, cars done correctly for shows, where the owners put way more labor in them then they ever could sell the car for, so there are deals out there. It is way cheaper to buy a Mustang done right, where someone else has poured his heart and soul into, then to buy one and restore it.

 

[charlies]

i really learned this from buying houses, but it applies here.

if i were about to drop 10 grand on an older mustang, you can bet it would have black interior, if that's what i wanted.

strictly based on the high price, and the fact that you want black interior, i would say this is not the car for you. there are plenty, and i mean plenty, of good ones out there. be patient, and find the one that doesn't already have a 'to-do' list waiting for you.

(about the house thing...i will never buy a house without a fence again. i have built 2 fences, the 2nd was my last)

 

[kirbyalaska]

One other thing I would point out is that it looks like the trumpets stick a bit too far out. They just don't look quite right. Anyway, I am also in a bad area for mustangs, but I would say that no more than 9k would be reasonable for that car. Good luck.

 

[GaPonyFarm]

The thing about buying these classic Mustangs, is that everything is subjective. Don't look at just dollars. Some of these self proclaimed pros don't have a clue of what it takes to restore a car and many more of them just write a check for others to do the work.

I'm not going to say one way or the other if the car in question is worth the asking price, but I will say that you should definitely check the known problem areas, like the cowl area, and be able to look past the minor, inconsequential, crap that that been listed here in great detail.

If the drivetrain is in good shape, rust problems have been professionally corrected, paint is good, and interior is decent, it may well be worth purchasing at $10,500, so long as you have an understanding of what it will cost to bring it to the level you desire, and are willing to spend that amount.

I traded out some work for a '66 coupe that was in excellant shape, but had a bad paint job. I actually had $305.00 out of pocket into the car. I then totally disassembled the car, replaced virtually everything, to include every nut & bolt, with the best quality, highest technology part I could find, and sanded the car to clean metal and had it repainted. I now have over $35,000 into this car and there are still some things I'd like to do to it as technology has improved.

I have a ton of $$$ into this car, but it is a labor of love and there are many, many coupes out there where owners have spent many more thousands of dollars on, because they had to pay for the labor to do the work.

What I'm trying to tell you is that you can spend $10k for a car that needs very little actually restoration work, and you can spend $4k on a so-called decent car that needs $20k of true restoration work.

Anyone that tells you that you can restore a classic mustang for $6k - $7k doesn't know what they're talking about. You can fix one up nicely for that kind of money, but you can't restore one for anything close to that. The word "restored" gets thrown around pretty loosely around here. I can tell you this much... I attend everything from local car shows to MCA Grand Nationals ( I won 2nd in the '66 Modified Class last year), and except for Concourse Class, I doubt that 10% are actually restored. There are plenty of really nice "fix-ups" but few truely restored.

Shop around, take a real mustang guy with you (consult your local club, if there is one), or at least take it to a trusted mechanic and body shop. Get a good idea what it will take to bring it to the level you want and you'll have a good idea what its actually worth. Get educated about classic mustangs and make an informed decision, not an emotional one. There will be plenty of time to get emotional with the car, after you own it and have done enough work to make your own personal mark on the car.

Sorry to rant, but it really ticks me off to see people make judgements on a car based upon pictures from the internet. They are good for nothing more than whittling down the pool of possibilities. Everybody seems to be an expert, but there are very few really nice example of restored mustangs on the road and NONE OF THEM are $6,000 cars.

Whats an early model Mustang coupe worth? Exactly what you're willing to pay up front for the purchase plus what it will cost to finish the job. The only one to judge the value of the deal is you.

Good luck my friend and I hope you find the car you're looking for.

 

[one2gamble]

all I know is these cars are sure getting expensive either way. You can get a pretty decent looking coupe for 4-7grand. I dont think I would pay more than that for a "stock" one. Ill probably have well over 10grand into mine when its done but its my car, its not an investment. You should buy the car you want because if you dont you wont be happy and you will either make it the car you want or sell it and buy another one. Save yourself that hassel.

 

[65fastback2+2]

One other thing I would point out is that it looks like the trumpets stick a bit too far out. They just don't look quite right. Anyway, I am also in a bad area for mustangs, but I would say that no more than 9k would be reasonable for that car. Good luck.

i concur, and I wouldnt give almost 11 g's for a faker GT. I would bet thats a C code car. Someone did a faker job and is trying to make a profit. If you notice too, the trunk lid doesnt line up.

 

[KnownRider]

How much water should one pour down the cowl when checking for rust?

 

[GaPonyFarm]

Just turn a hose on it. If it doesn't leak then, its not going to leak in the rain.