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Cylinder Head Piston Question

  • Thread starter Thread starter sgarrelts01
  • Start date Start date Dec 17, 2009
S

sgarrelts01

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Dec 17, 2009
#1
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #1
I just bought a set of AFR 185's and was wondering about my pistons. They are Keith Black Flat top, with two valve reliefs pistons. Will i have trouble with the piston and head clearance.
 

Tanus

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Dec 17, 2009
#2
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #2
depends on the cam&rocker ratio, but probably not, but Id still check it. its more work but time is free, new valves are not.
 
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sgarrelts01

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Dec 17, 2009
#3
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #3
Tanus said:
depends on the cam&rocker ratio, but probably not, but Id still check it. its more work but time is free, new valves are not.
Click to expand...

would it be better for 1.6 rockers or 1.7

Right now im just going to beat cheap and go with a z 303 cam.

I read that article about 400hp on a stock cam so i am going with AFR 185's, most likely z303 cam, eddy air gap intake and holley 750 on a 331, really hoping for that 400 mark.
 

Tanus

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#4
  • Dec 17, 2009
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the 1.7s give more lift, but also more chance of clearance issue's. with that set-up you'd easily be at 400hp at the crankshaft
 

Tanus

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this a race car or street car?
 
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sgarrelts01

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Dec 17, 2009
#6
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #6
Tanus said:
this a race car or street car?
Click to expand...

Street, most likely just something i drive from time to time.

Wish their was a way to tell before i go off an order Rockers. Those are not cheap to be just playing around with guessing.
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
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#7
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Most aftermarket pistons have enough valve relief for most street setups. Wouldn't hurt to check it though. If you're looking for 400hp, I would stear clear of a letter cam. The letter cams make the car sound nice, but do little for performance. Hence the term "noise cam."

Kurt
 

Tanus

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#8
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #8
revhead347 said:
Most aftermarket pistons have enough valve relief for most street setups. Wouldn't hurt to check it though. If you're looking for 400hp, I would stear clear of a letter cam. The letter cams make the car sound nice, but do little for performance. Hence the term "noise cam."

Kurt
Click to expand...
I'd have to disagree, not saying Z cam is the best out there, but it has a excellent powerband and will definatly net 400hp on a carbed 331 w/ AFR's. No doubt about it. Im sure FRPP put a good amount of research into the design.
 
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sgarrelts01

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#9
  • Dec 17, 2009
  • #9
revhead347 said:
Most aftermarket pistons have enough valve relief for most street setups. Wouldn't hurt to check it though. If you're looking for 400hp, I would stear clear of a letter cam. The letter cams make the car sound nice, but do little for performance. Hence the term "noise cam."

Kurt
Click to expand...

I hear bad things about letter cams, but after seeing that thread with a 400hp motor with a stock cam, a letter cam seems a step up from that, and seeing i will have better heads, and will do porting work to the heads and intake, and not a stock cam i would like to have better HP. Eventually i will get a custom cam but right now, i am going to be cheap.

I see complaints about the letter cams, but what about the trick flow and steeda cams, what is the difference between the 3, that makes 1 so bad, and others love the steeda and trick.
 

Black95GTS

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Dec 18, 2009
#10
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #10
sgarrelts01 said:
I hear bad things about letter cams, but after seeing that thread with a 400hp motor with a stock cam, a letter cam seems a step up from that, and seeing i will have better heads, and will do porting work to the heads and intake, and not a stock cam i would like to have better HP. Eventually i will get a custom cam but right now, i am going to be cheap.

I see complaints about the letter cams, but what about the trick flow and steeda cams, what is the difference between the 3, that makes 1 so bad, and others love the steeda and trick.
Click to expand...

Letter cams were designed in the early 80s. If you were upgrading your computer would you take out the pentium 4 and put some vacuum tubes in? They use identical intake / exhaust specs for both lift and duration.

I'm not a huge fan of the Steeda camshaft, as I don't think its a remarkable improvement over stock. People love it because you can *usually* slip it into an SN95 and get away with foregoing an expensive tune. But I don't think the hassle of a camshaft is worth it for the gain. Some blower guys run this cam, I don't know much about blowers so I'll leave it there.

The trick flow stage 1 cam is a step up, as it features exhaust bias in terms of lift and duration. This is not a MONSTER cam, but it is a step in the right direction and plenty of people have run low 12s with this cam.

Whats a comp cams XE274 going for these days? Check that cam out.

Adam
 
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sgarrelts01

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Dec 18, 2009
#11
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #11
Black95GTS said:
Letter cams were designed in the early 80s. If you were upgrading your computer would you take out the pentium 4 and put some vacuum tubes in? They use identical intake / exhaust specs for both lift and duration.


Adam
Click to expand...

Just looked at a trick flow cam and one of them was 292/290 if identical intake exhaust isn't the best, then how good can it be when the exhaust is less then the intake.
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
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Dec 18, 2009
#12
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #12
400hp with a stock cam is the exception. I personally have never seen an engine with a stock cam make 400hp N/A. Maybe a trophy stock car, but those aren't really stock cams. If you are expecting 400hp out of your engine, you are looking into something in the range of a Trick Flow 2, and some pretty stout heads.

Kurt
 
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sgarrelts01

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Dec 18, 2009
#13
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #13
revhead347 said:
400hp with a stock cam is the exception. I personally have never seen an engine with a stock cam make 400hp N/A. Maybe a trophy stock car, but those aren't really stock cams. If you are expecting 400hp out of your engine, you are looking into something in the range of a Trick Flow 2, and some pretty stout heads.

Kurt
Click to expand...

Wouldn't my AFR 185 do that trick.

And isn't the Trick Flow 2 the Cam that has the smaller exhaust then intake, something that people frown upon with the ford cam because of the same intake exhaust
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,302
1,645
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Acworth, GA
Dec 18, 2009
#14
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #14
AFR 185 is a very good head, and will definately do the trick. All of the Trick Flow cams have more lift and duration on the exhaust. Look at the duration from .050" to .050" as that is what is really important. Advertised duration doesn't really matter much.

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51402001 - Trick Flow® Track Max® Hydraulic Roller Camshafts for Ford 5.0L - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Kurt
 
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sgarrelts01

New Member
Apr 26, 2009
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Niles, Michigan
Dec 18, 2009
#15
  • Dec 18, 2009
  • #15
revhead347 said:
AFR 185 is a very good head, and will definately do the trick. All of the Trick Flow cams have more lift and duration on the exhaust. Look at the duration from .050" to .050" as that is what is really important. Advertised duration doesn't really matter much.

Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51402001 - Trick Flow® Track Max® Hydraulic Roller Camshafts for Ford 5.0L - Overview - SummitRacing.com

Kurt
Click to expand...

ok thanks

What is the difference in power between that cam and the z303. Is there any charts i can search for you that you know of.

I am trying to learn as much as i can about cams
 

Tanus

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Dec 19, 2009
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  • Dec 19, 2009
  • #16
Black95GTS said:
Letter cams were designed in the early 80s.
Click to expand...
Z cam didnt come out till like 01 or 02, maybe 03. I know cause when I bought the X cam it was the biggest one avalible through FRPP.

But since everyone seems to think the Z sucks I'll probably swap to the TF stage 2. Need new lifters anyway, so its a good time. Hopefully Z sucks as much as you guys say, haha
 

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.
20+ Year Stangneter
Jun 14, 2004
9,302
1,645
214
46
Acworth, GA
Dec 19, 2009
#17
  • Dec 19, 2009
  • #17
sgarrelts01 said:
ok thanks

What is the difference in power between that cam and the z303. Is there any charts i can search for you that you know of.

I am trying to learn as much as i can about cams
Click to expand...

No idea what the power difference is. When it comes to cams, I wouldn't do the Trick Flow if it were my car. It's cheap, but not necessarily the best. If you can afford a custom grind, then do that. If you can not afford the custom, then call a tech at Comp Cams for a recommendation. Then if Comp Cams comes up with something almost identical to the Trick Flow, then just buy the Trick Flow.

Kurt
 
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