Debating the predator;

propellerhead · Dec 23, 2004

mnbf said:
When you order your custom tune you tell them that you want all that done and they do it ... or all you have to do it email your tuner telling them you would like that done and they will do it for you ... the Xcal works great for me and the only reason i went with it over the diablo is because of the experience of the tuners at MD.

And I do not disagree with you. I guess it wasn't clear to some readers. I was talking about the SCT Extreme Tune/QuickTune software, not the Xcalibrator. The tune from the vendor can do all that's listed at MD.

Again, the end-user software called SCT Extreme Tune/QuickTune does NOT have all the adjustability that the Predator has.

Let me state that again for those who missed it...

The SCT Extreme Tune/QuickTune software that I downloaded last night does NOT allow you to adjust all the parameters that the Predator allows.

Keyword phrase there is SCT Extreme Tune/QuickTune software.

mnbf · Dec 23, 2004

....

oh i see... that software is for the xcal though...

tomustang · Dec 23, 2004

i'd like to start out with the Predator, but i don't know how the stock predator program is going to react to my headswap. i don't have enough for a custom program yet.

mnbf · Dec 23, 2004

tomustang said:
i'd like to start out with the Predator, but i don't know how the stock predator program is going to react to my headswap. i don't have enough for a custom program yet.

Then why not go with the custom tune with the xcal ... they will send you a tune and if it doesnt work you email them and they fix your tune untill it works right for free..

propellerhead · Dec 23, 2004

tomustang said:
i'd like to start out with the Predator, but i don't know how the stock predator program is going to react to my headswap. i don't have enough for a custom program yet.

I agree with mnbf. If you feel the default Predator tune is not going to fit your needs, go with the Xcalibrator. One vendor quoted me $375 for the Xcalibrator and three (3) tunes. I have a fairly stock vehicle so the tunes he was going to give me were pretty generic off-the-shelf tunes.

On the other hand, a Predator dealer might offer you a custom tune along with the Predator unit.

Either way, check with several vendors from each side. You may not even need a custom tune.

tomustang · Dec 23, 2004

good advice guys does SCT have a dealer locator where i can find a local shop?

and the reason why i first shot for the predator is because it have automatic shift settings

propellerhead · Dec 23, 2004

tomustang said:
good advice guys does SCT have a dealer locator where i can find a local shop?

and the reason why i first shot for the predator is because it have automatic shift settings

My main goal in a handheld tuner was to improve the auto trans shifting, and that's why I went with the Predator. I can adjust the shifting over and over until I find the settings that I like. I always bark the tires at WOT 1-2 shift now. With the Xcalibrator, the vendor was going to give me stock, firm and hard settings in the three tunes that he was going to include. I wouldn't be able to choose anything in between. If I wanted minor adjustments, it would mean mailing the Xcalibrator back and forth. Clearly the Predator was the best choice for me.

mnbf · Dec 23, 2004

tomustang said:
good advice guys does SCT have a dealer locator where i can find a local shop?

and the reason why i first shot for the predator is because it have automatic shift settings

I was going to mention that as well with you haveing an auto im sure the people at MD have more experiance with tuneing them and setting up your shiftpoints\firmness... where as the pred. you have to adjust it yourself for the most part and i dont think the pred. has the full adjustability the custom tune would have.

p.s. you dont mail the xcal back and forth you just email them and they send your tune through email and you load it up right from your computer

flipnsac · Dec 23, 2004

jrc_03_gt said:
What is the cheapest price you guys have found for a predator????

I got it from this guy for $330 out the door......that price included shipping, handling and taxes. The guy is really knowlegable too on use of the Predator. I must've e-mailed him a dozen times asking questions and he answered them all. Highly recommended.......

Dave
Injected Racing
www.injectedracing.com
417.873.9900
e-mail: Injectedracing@aol.com

BTW: Propellerhead, I know you have done much research on the Predator from many of your posts on other threads and this one. Thank you for sharing a lot of your knowledge and research here. It is very valuable information. It's good to have you on Stangnet!!!! Flip

Mustang_GT_02 · Dec 23, 2004

propellerhead said:
Download the software and the sample tune. Maybe the stuff will appear for you. If it does, I'm not gonna argue. The items in question did NOT appear for me. I clicked on everything too. I was bummed out. I was expecting to see all that's listed in the ad. When the software right in front of your face doesn't have the items you expect, do you still believe what the ad says?

Looking at it again, the ad lists what the Xcalibrator tune can do -- the tune provided by the dealer. That ad is not stating what the software can do. I'm sure some future revison will have it...

I think i like predator more, but it does say when u download that it is a preview version only n that lots of stuff wont work on it, its just basically a little taste for what will come it does say that so u never kno

propellerhead · Dec 24, 2004

Mustang_GT_02 said:
I think i like predator more, but it does say when u download that it is a preview version only n that lots of stuff wont work on it, its just basically a little taste for what will come it does say that so u never kno

That's great! Go ahead and wait for the Quicktune software. I hope you're not in a hurry though. If you plan on doing some test and tune runs at the track, you'll need a laptop or a desktop computer and a 110vac source to do any tweaks to your tune. With the Predator, you have all you need to record data and tweak your tune.

propellerhead · Dec 24, 2004

propellerhead said:
I did not see any adjustments to the auto trans shifting at all in the SCT Extreme Tune (also known as QuickTune) software. No shift pressures. No shift points. No torque modulation. Nada.

Update:

You need a tune for an auto trans vehicle for the auto trans settings to show up. The shift point schedule screen looks awesome and I like how the shift pressure adjustments have a light, medium and heavy throttle slider. They really up'ed the ante on that one. The Predator has some catching up to do.

I still didn't see anything for torque modulation though.

Mustang_GT_02 · Dec 24, 2004

the main reason why im not 100% on buyin a predator is because their T/A is so weird? i still dont get it

Darkhorse845 · Dec 24, 2004

Just get the Predator and be done with it.
It's a really good piece and worth the dough!

propellerhead · Dec 24, 2004

Mustang_GT_02 said:
the main reason why im not 100% on buyin a predator is because their T/A is so weird? i still dont get it

The setting you get in the Predator is a percentage of the timing settings in the LOAD vs RPM timing table of the tune you are modifying (usually the Performance Tune). It adjustment ranges from -40% to +10%. A setting of +6% means that when the EEC computes and decides on how much spark advance to do for that specific point in time, the resulting setting will be 6% higher than what it normally would be.

Mustang_GT_02 · Dec 24, 2004

propellerhead said:
The setting you get in the Predator is a percentage of the timing settings in the LOAD vs RPM timing table of the tune you are modifying (usually the Performance Tune). It adjustment ranges from -40% to +10%. A setting of +6% means that when the EEC computes and decides on how much spark advance to do for that specific point in time, the resulting setting will be 6% higher than what it normally would be.

so is it safe to goo all the way up too 10%? n does it equal a setting of 15degrees on the T/A adjuster? thx for all ur help dude ur awesome

jrc_03_gt · Dec 24, 2004

flipnsac said:
I got it from this guy for $330 out the door......that price included shipping, handling and taxes. The guy is really knowlegable too on use of the Predator. I must've e-mailed him a dozen times asking questions and he answered them all. Highly recommended.......

Dave
Injected Racing
www.injectedracing.com
417.873.9900
e-mail: Injectedracing@aol.com

BTW: Propellerhead, I know you have done much research on the Predator from many of your posts on other threads and this one. Thank you for sharing a lot of your knowledge and research here. It is very valuable information. It's good to have you on Stangnet!!!! Flip

I just ordered one for $330 !

jrc_03_gt · Dec 24, 2004

Mustang_GT_02 said:
so is it safe to goo all the way up too 10%? n does it equal a setting of 15degrees on the T/A adjuster? thx for all ur help dude ur awesome

I would like to know too.

Propellerhead, Where is your timing set at. I think we will have the same set up. Do you have an off-road mid-pipe?

propellerhead · Dec 24, 2004

I can't tell you if +10% is safe or not. It all depends on how your engine is responding to the advanced spark. It's like your shoe size. You have to find what fits. You can't really base it on what others get. The goal is to get the most advance without the engine pinging or knocking. Start slow. Go in small increments. The Predator lets you go to +10% in half percent increments. When I make a small change, I drive around for at least a week so I can cover almost all driving conditions.

I have mine at 6% right now. I do not hear any pinging or knocking when winding out 1st and 2nd gear but I hear some knocking under heavy load at highway cruising speeds though. I might add a little more advance to see at what point will I get pinging during 1st and 2nd gear WOT runs, then back off to avoid pinging under load at highway cruise speeds.

You can't equate the Predator's setting to the mechanical timing adjuster's setting. The Predator adds a gain. The mechanical timing adjuster adds a bias. The EEC monitors RPM and LOAD and uses a look up table to determine what SPARKADV to use. The Predator allows you to alter this table and add or subtract a percentage to all the SPARKADV values. A setting of "5" means every value is increased proportionally by 5%. With a mechanical adjuster, you leave the EEC tables alone and add a fixed amount of advance under all driving conditions.

Also, the Predator spark advance adjustment applies to WOT conditions for the 2k-4k and 4k-7k RPM bands. A mechanical timing adjuster has one fixed setting for all driving conditions.

twogts4us · Dec 25, 2004

SCT Extreme Personal Tuning Software Download available here...but, honestly, it does nothing without a sample tune. It will, however, :
- Change Axle Ratio
- Change Tire Size
- Change Idle, Partial Throttle, Full Throttle, A/F ratio
- Change Engine Timing
- Change Engine Idle
- Change Auto Transmission Shift Schedules and Firmness
- Rev & Speed Limiters
By the way, this last item is a two step rev limiter...something really useful for those hitting the 1320.
The XCalibrator doesn't come with a generic tune. It is a custom tune (maybe off-the-shelf), but it's based on your mods or your specs. No global settings here.
If you need more than this, ck with your tuner (like MD) or your local tuner with a dyno for full benefits/metering/data logging.
PropellerHead's 'main goal in a handheld tuner was to improve the auto trans shifting...I always bark the tires at WOT 1-2 shift now.' Oh-boy!?!?

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