Dizzy & Timing Issues (30*????)

[bloopbloob]

I have been having a hell of a time trying to get my timing set properly. it seems to run best at about 20*, but i can advance it to 30* without any knock, even when i rev it. i know this isn't right... so i pulled my #1 plug, found TDC with a screwdriver, and it is very close to what my timing pointer says, so i dont think i have a spun balancer. here's a pic of my dizzy, and where my finger is, is where the #1 wire is on the cap. someone on here told me i needed to spin it so the metal on the rotor was pointing to #1, so i spun it 180* and lined it up with #1 on the cap. tried to start it and it wouldnt turn over, then BOOM! major backfire. so i have put it back to where it was for now. What am i doing wrong?

 

[Fett]

Try a different timing light. I have had that problem, where I set my timing at 15* but was experiencing pinging at higher RPMs. Checked it with another light and I was at 25*. So I reset the timing to 15* according to the second light, then double checked it with two more lights....then rechecked it with the original one. With the original one I was reading well below, but with the other three I was dead on at 15*.

So I would just quickly try a different light and see what you get before you driving yourself nuts trying to fix a problem you might not have.

 

[bloopbloob]

anyone else with any ideas? does it look like everything is installed correctly? is the rotor where it should be? the pic is taken at TDC, and my finger is #1 on the cap. do i need to spin it 180* so the metal on the rotor is pointing to my finger?

 

[Aryan15]

Yes, the rotor has to be pointing at the #1 position on the cap at tdc on compression stroke.

 

[bloopbloob]

i tried doing that, and it wouldn't turn over. i tried about 3 times to start it, then had a huge explosion (i'm hoping just a backfire???)

 

[Aryan15]

Are you certain that you are on a compression stroke on the #1 cylinder. The passenger side front cylinder is #1.

 

[bloopbloob]

pretty sure. i know i checked with the right plug hole,, but i was doing this by myself, so i couldnt check if it was the compression or exhaust stroke by feeling for air... i was just hoping and assuming that since TDC was correct with my timing pointer, that i'd be ok. is that a bad idea? why wouldnt it start, and then something exploded, when i pointed the rotor to #1?

 

[Fett]

Because you are too far away from TDC, with the rotor pointed in that position. Which tells us one of two things. Either you were not at TDC, or your wires are off by one lug each. That can happen also, I have seen it where an aftermarket dizzy has the TFI module in an odd position and each wire had to be moved one lug each to get the dizzy to fit. So basically the cap and rotor would be off by one cylinder, but everything would still be timed correctly. If I am at TDC, my rotor doesn't point where it should...because of my Accel dizzy.

That is an odd situation and I doubt that is the case. If I had to guess, you are not at TDC and that is why the rotor is pointing where it is. I would put it back where it was and try a different timing light, and make sure the one you are using doesn't have any settings to advance or retard the light.

 

[bloopbloob]

the light i have has no settings, just a trigger. i am certain i was a tdc ( but not about comp/exh stroke). i felt for the piston to reach the highest point, and it matched my balancer. the cap has a mark on the inside for #1, and wires are placed in the correct order around the cap. all my wires are numbered and go to the correct cylinders. will the exhaust stroke or compression stroke change the orientation of the rotor when at tdc for each? it seems like my rotor is exactly 180* off from where it should be (pointing at #1). - also, why doesnt it ping? i can advance the timing to the point where it almost doesnt run, and rev it, and it won't ping????

 

[Fett]

Well if your timing marker shows 0, and your #1 piston is at TDC your rotor should either be pointing towards #1 wire, or 180* out.

Looking at your picture though, your TFI seems to be very far to the left (drivers side). Maybe it's just me, but it seems like it is far over.

If I were you, I would start over. Put the dizzy back where it was originally, then put #1 at TDC. Get the motor running and see where you are. I would still try another light. I think the rotor being out is just you on the wrong stroke when you put it at TDC. But I can't help but think that either your timing light is off, or you spun the balancer. I can't see any way that the timing would be THAT far off.

 

[bloopbloob]

i really do appreciate the help! i've never done anything with dizzy's or timing before, but i want to learn everything i can about my car so i can do it myself! i don't even know what a tfi is? (sorry!). this pic was taken before i moved anything. all i did was roll the car so that the timing pointer was at 0, then popped the cap and took a pic. the engine was rebuilt about a year ago... maybe they put it in wrong???? from here, i took the dizzy out, spun it 180 and lined up the #1 on the cap with the metal end of the rotor, and had the problems, so i put it back to TDC and then yanked the diz and put it back where it was (same as in pic again), and it runs OK.. now, but it doesnt feel right. just to be clear, how noticable would pinging be? does it get worse at higher rpms? i'm just scared i'm wrecking my engine right now. sounds fine but i dont want to wreck anything. gonna take it to a dealership soon if i cant get this problem figured out........
edit: so will the TDC compression stroke and TDC exhaust stroke be different in the rotors position by 180*???

 

[Fett]

The TFI module is the thing attached to the dizzy where the electrical connector goes. It just seems turned too far to me.

Ok, so you put the motor at TDC and the rotor was pointing 180* away from the #1 wire? Then you were TDC on the intake stroke, which would make sense. If you were to leave the dizzy alone and use a breaker bar to rotate the crank until you come back to TDC again on the #1 cylinder, you should be on the exhaust stroke (feeling air coming out of the spark plug hole), and at THAT point the rotor should be pointing at #1 wire.

Hey wait.....when you are using the timing light to play with your timing...do you have the spout connector out? That would explain a lot.

Make sure you have the timing light clamp on the #1 wire, front plug on the passengers side. And make sure you pull out the spout before checking your timing. It is a common mistake people make, to forget to remove the spout. I know I have done it.

 

[bloopbloob]

yup spout was out, clamp on #1 wire, front passenger side cylinder. ok well this is starting to make more sense now. so the pic is of TDC on the intake stroke? i did move the dizzy before this pic because the tfi was hitting my water neck, and i couldnt advance timing at all when i first tried to set my timing. it was at 10*, but i couldnt advance it, so i came on here, and did what people said. i put it at 0* on the balancer, yanked the diz and turned it. it would only drop in a couple spots, i put in in at about 1/4 turn counter clockwise from where it was (hitting water neck) which is what the pic is showing. what have i done wrong here?

 

[Fett]

yup spout was out, clamp on #1 wire, front passenger side cylinder. ok well this is starting to make more sense now. so the pic is of TDC on the intake stroke? i did move the dizzy before this pic because the tfi was hitting my water neck, and i couldnt advance timing at all when i first tried to set my timing. it was at 10*, but i couldnt advance it, so i came on here, and did what people said. i put it at 0* on the balancer, yanked the diz and turned it. it would only drop in a couple spots, i put in in at about 1/4 turn counter clockwise from where it was (hitting water neck) which is what the pic is showing. what have i done wrong here?

When you are at TDC compression stroke, you can place the dizzy so the rotor is pointing at #1 wire, but clock it so you have room to move the dizzy one way or the other without the TFI hitting the thermostat housing. You can clock the dizzy itself any way you want without it effecting timing, as long as the rotor is pointing in the correct location. You may have just installed it at a point where the TFI hitting the thermostat housing was keeping you from getting the timing set where you wanted.

 

[irish]

What I did was to stick my finger as far in the #1 spark plug hole as I could(if you have small fingers don't get carried away here) with one hand, and cranked the engine over BY HAND with a large socket until I felt my finger was getting pushed out of the hole by air pressure, I put a pencil in the #1 hole and slowly cranked some more watching the pencil get forced up, when it stops moving up, thats TDC on the compression stroke. Verify your balancer agrees with that, and remember when you stab the dist. it doesn't just go in straight, it kinda twists as it goes in and you need to allow for that in your "stabbing position" or you wind up a tooth of running into the thermostat housing.....my 2 cents...