Do batteries short out? I think mine just did

crazypete · Feb 21, 2006

So here's what happened. I returned from a spirited drive the night before, pulled into the garage and shut the ignition (the ignition is on a seperate switch than the rest of the car) in gear so the engine doesnt diesel the way it likes to. I then rowed the shifter back to park. As it passed "R", there was a split second when the reverse lights came on, the brake lights were still lit, the headlights were still on, the alpine and amp were still blasting away and the heater fan was still running. The lights flashed out for a second the way I've never seen them do before. Confused, I shut everything and gave it a burst of starter just to make sure everything still worked....everything seemed ok.

I come out the next night to leave for my friends birthday and hit the key to start and the car is turning over veeeeeery slowly: rrrrrrrrrrrr-ru-ru-ruuu-rrrrr then not at all. I swore and then ran inside and got my spare battery and gave myself a jump. Now the voltmeter read its proper 13-15 volts and I hit it again. RRRRRRrrrrrrrrr-ru-ru-ru-ru-ruuuuurrrrrrr-nothing. More spirited sounding but still not really cranking. I pulled the corolla in and jumpered 3 batteries in parallel with a running motor and I nearly stalled the idling corolla behind me with almost identical results on my end.

aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh! So I beg the parents for use of their wheels and go have fun regardless. I had the trickle charger charging both batteries for 2 days at that point so they were both nice and juiced up. I flick the key on and the alt light is very dim. I turn on ANYTHING(Like a turn signal) and the power goes cold out and I have to go out back and detach the battery cable for a few seconds. Bad ground? I ran a wire from the "-" to the master ground wire up front with both batteries hooked in parallel. Lights/guages lit better now and voltmeter showing 12-13 volts but if I power up my radio, the power still goes cold out (both batteries!). I detached starter lead at relay and use jumper cable from +. Nothing. Battery still showing good voltage at the terminals.

I then used the spare battery alone and my jumper cables. - clamped to headers, + touched to starter lead. Suddenly, it cranks at full blast. odd

I pulled my old battery and completely replaced it with the spare (like put it on the battery post clamps) and now everything works once the old battery is off the circuit. I had to reinforce the master ground and replace a single fuse but now I beg the question....

Why did this not work with jumper cables?!? (the starter experiment above tells me my cables were good) If I jumper my spare, it should effecively be the same as switching the posts. Why did that not work? Why should the fact that my old battery cant provide any current effect my ability to use the current in the spare to start the car?

Did my primary battery "short out"?

Why do batteries short out?

jrichker · Feb 21, 2006

I have heard of batteries shorting out because the sediment that collects in the bottom of the battery case shorts out the plates. The sediment is usually from the minerals in the water that has been added to the battery.

When a battery shorts internally, one or more of the cells go dead with no useful voltage output from the dead cells.

crazypete · Feb 21, 2006

Now if you were to jumper across such a shorted battery, would it like.....suck in current and keep the jump from supplying juice to the system?

Cause thats what happened more or less.

wht93gtEd · Feb 21, 2006

I know that a cell in the battery can go bad, causing strange things to happen...

Ususally you can't jump it or anything when that happens

snoboardcore · Feb 21, 2006

wht93gtEd said:
I know that a cell in the battery can go bad, causing strange things to happen...

Ususally you can't jump it or anything when that happens

Thats what happened to mine. Wont charge and you can't jump it. Have to give it the ol' roll start to get it running.

90lxfoxbody · Feb 21, 2006

if the battery is old or has been subjected to temp extremes it causes the plates to break down. as they break down particles and pieces of the plate settle at the bottom of the battery. this can cause the battery to short. and of course it will happen at the worst possible time. also i would not try to charge the battery again because depending on the type of battery and the degree to which the plates have degenerated, it can cause the battery to swell and break the plastic case. there have been extreme cases where the battery exploded when it was charged for too long and the case held instead of cracking. good luck man.

stockhatch · Feb 21, 2006

I can back up the 'sploding thing. One popped on my dad a while back. no warning, just a violent explosion covering him with acidic fluid. The top of the battery landed like 20 feet away. He had charged/jumped it a few times without opening the vent caps. Learn from this and be careful.

pb_paulie_b · Feb 21, 2006

Here's a fix that really works, I've done it to my mustangs battery and my CBR. Pop off the vents. Dump out the water. Thoroughly rinse out all the stuff inside. Fill with filtered or distilled water. Charge at low amps for a day or two. Your battery will be good as new

crazypete · Feb 21, 2006

This is a newer sealed battery but I guess I could pry off those 2 square plastic pieces on the top and see what's inside.

I've been charging it for 2 days just to see what happens but I suppose I should cease immediately before it takes out my basement.

8950HO · Feb 21, 2006

The original 3.5 year old Motorcraft battery took a dump on me one day with no warning.(the car had always cranked over fast up to this point).

Everything was fine before...went to work in the morning,no problem.
Go to leave work,turn the key...click,click,click,dead.

A guy next door with a tow truck tried connecting a booster battery with cables to mine to boost it...nothing.

I threw in a brand new battery and it fired right up,and it has never happened again.

crazypete · Feb 23, 2006

Yeah, I think it's time was up. Its marked JAN2000 ...6 years of service..hard service from the looks of it and I just noticed a slight bulge at the sides.

I got a crappy valuecraft 670cca. Batteries are weird. The small ones had higher cca's than some of the huge batteries. I got valuecraft cause it was the only black battery they had....I didnt want some bright red or yellow battery glowing away in my trunk.

What a difference! Starts right up, no more hesitating at cold idle, no more voltmeter dancing to my music.

I just realized that this is quite possibly the first "maintenence" related mishap I've had in a very long time (as opposed to stuff breaking cause of upgrade breakins).

Thanks guys!

Pete

rd · Feb 23, 2006

I have had all of the above. Had an old 24 volt front end loader blow up in my face, had a Firebird spontaneoulsy combust at 2 am outside my apartment, and have had some that you could not even jump start.

I just replace batteries now when they are a few years old and start to make slow cranking sounds. Put a voltmeter on them with the engine running. If the alt is working, the cables and connections are decent, just change the battery.

The only other surefire improvement is trickle charging with one of the computerized battery maintainers, like a Battery Tender. I have a friend who is an electronics engineer, and knows battery technology inside and out. He has lots of seasonal toys, and uses these on all of his batteries. He says it cuts battery replacement in half on snowmobiles, waverunners, boats, hotrods, etc.

I tried it last year and this year on mine and it works.

tmoss · Feb 24, 2006

pb_paulie_b said:
Here's a fix that really works, I've done it to my mustangs battery and my CBR. Pop off the vents. Dump out the water. Thoroughly rinse out all the stuff inside. Fill with filtered or distilled water. Charge at low amps for a day or two. Your battery will be good as new

I can't see how this works paulie and I would not recommend it. You're not dumping just water, your dumping the electrolyte sulphuric acid too. Without acid, the battery does not work. The particles that shed from the plates are lead sulphate. Tap water has minerals in it that contaminate the lead plates - always use distilled water.

pb_paulie_b · Feb 24, 2006

tmoss said:
I can't see how this works paulie and I would not recommend it. You're not dumping just water, your dumping the electrolyte sulphuric acid too. Without acid, the battery does not work. The particles that shed from the plates are lead sulphate. Tap water has minerals in it that contaminate the lead plates - always use distilled water.

Trust me it works. Got an old battery? Try it! I really used water straight out my sink. A battery with just water and a low amp charge [1 or 2 amps] will develop it's own electrolyte. I did this to my Mustangs battery after it sat so long and wouldn't take a charge. Now almost a year later no problems at all, it might as well be a new battery.
The battery in my CBR same deal. It wouldn't even start my bike while hooked up to jumper cables. I popped off the vents and found it was almost completely dry. I rinsed it out, filled, and charged it for 2 days - no problems to this day.

crazypete · Feb 24, 2006

Can you open a "sealed battery" like this old exide? Whats under those 2 squares on top? Will it burst?

pb_paulie_b · Feb 24, 2006

Yes you can. I used a thin blade screwdriver to get at mine. It won't burst. Don't smoke around it or hold a lighter to it. Leave them off while charging too. I like to hook up my charger cables first them plug the charger in to minimise sparking.

pb_paulie_b · Feb 24, 2006

BTW those are there to vent pressure in the battery from being charged. under them you should see the cells. this is how you get water in and out. You would be surprised at all the crap and flakes that build up over time.

CBZGT50 · Feb 24, 2006

first of all, you guys are scarry mecanics. I would first identify the PROBLEM whether it is voltage, ground or a part (such as an ignition switch or starter). Use your volt meter to identify the ground from the block to battery, and battery to ground. If all the lights work great, and you have 12v or more on the battery, you have a ground or starter problem between the battery and the block side power. Check your voltage AT the starter, then jump it to the chassis and see if you have voltage. if there is no voltage or less than 12v, you have a ground problem. I have replaced the ground and power wires on all three of my 5.0's because of this SAME problem and I never switched out a battery. I run red top dry cells and would never try to drain a maint free/sealed battery. Always determine the problem before changing parts or you will just be wasting time and possibly be causing more destruction to your car or yourself.

pb_paulie_b · Feb 24, 2006

CBZGT50, I respect your opinion. For me the battery was the problem. I fixed it and all is good, nothing scarry bout that.

Do batteries short out? I think mine just did

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