Does anyone have any input on this CAI

bigcat · Feb 8, 2006

ski said:
What is the selling price of your intake without the tuner?

i found it for $225 on partshopper....

http://www.partshopper.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=297&catid=

Black2006GT · Feb 8, 2006

DON'T experiment

My advice . . . go with a known good setup. I have the C&L cai with the sct2 tuner and it is worth every penny. I have been tweaking Stangs for over 20 years and I have learned to let other people be the guinnea pig
I have also learned that you get what you pay for.
On the plastic/aluminum issue . . . it works both ways. Plastic doesn't retain heat like a chunk of aluminum, but it doesn't insulate as well either. Sudden under hood temp changes, like a good 1320 ft romping, will heat the plastic quicker than aluminum. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I think the aluminum tubes (which Do have a bigger MAF housing) are gonna be the best performers.
p.s. If you are not able to spend $650 for some real performance, just wait until you are. You'll be sorry you didn't buy the best

Kyle F · Feb 8, 2006

ski said:
Hmmm...
If an intercooler and an intake were the same dynamic model except with their heat flows reversed, then an intake that's hotter than the inlet air would have to add more heat to the inlet air at higher airflow velocities, and thus cause higher inlet air temperatures. However, field tests show that just does not happen.

Huh?.. What?

Air to Aluminum? Both cases is the same... flow reversed. Period.

My point was that the Aluminum pipe will not transfer as much heat as the intercooler because of less surface area contact to the flowing air, and less turbulance.

I was supplementing your statement with an agreement incase someone was to argue that an Intercooler tranfers heat and its aluminum.

JLTucker · Feb 9, 2006

Just to clear a few things up.
Aluminum is a "super conductor" and a "heat sink" meaning it's the 3rd fastest metal to absorb heat and transfere it. (gold and silver are 1&2)
So if it absorbs the heat fast then transferes it... Where is it transfering it to?? The air passing through it.
The marketing tool of "air is going through it so fast it doesn't heat up" is not so.
If you can't touch the pipe because it's hot, the air going through it will be hotter then a pipe that is cool to the touch. This is fact.

Plastic is not going to heat up faster then aluminum. it's fact not hear say.

Why do you see people at the drags with ice on there aluminum intakes?? To cool them down and inturn cool down the air passing through it.
So if the statment "air's passing through it too fast to absorb the heat" were true, why do we ice our aluminum intakes??
Would the same hold true for the cool temp of the intake?

I'm not here to knock C&L, heck they did fantastic in the 5.0 shootout and I admire there companeis achivements in this market.

Yes, the thought of a $500-$600 CAI is crazy, but with this new GT it's just the way it is.
Then you have the tuner for all future mods, headers, off road pipe, gear changes and so on.
Plus you get the added benifit of BETTER THROTTLE RESPONCE. I know this something that all owners would like. My F-150 was the same way and I hated it. now with the tune all is great.
Plus, automatic cars will get much firmer shifts.

If you go for a kit that will not need a tune, your gettnig a $300+ kit and all most half the HP& TQ gains. Not to mention all the other benifits of the tuner.
This is a good option for many and I understand that, but for all out power and customability the CAI/X2 is the way to go. Better yet, the JLT/X2 is the best way to go.

Thanks
Jay

ski · Feb 9, 2006

Kyle F said:
Huh?.. What?

Air to Aluminum? Both cases is the same... flow reversed. Period.

My point was that the Aluminum pipe will not transfer as much heat as the intercooler because of less surface area contact to the flowing air, and less turbulance.

I was supplementing your statement with an agreement incase someone was to argue that an Intercooler tranfers heat and its aluminum.

I misinterpreted your intent. Sorry 'bout that.

ski · Feb 9, 2006

JLTucker said:
So if it absorbs the heat fast then transferes it... Where is it transfering it to?? The air passing through it.

You forgot to include the all important time factor variable, i.e., the amount of heat that's transferred to each cubic foot of air while it's flowing thru the intake, which is miniscule. This falls in line with my previous comment "Because the airflow velocity inside the intake is so high that the air does not have sufficient time to absorb any amount of heat from the intake's walls in order to reduce engine performance."

JLTucker said:
Why do you see people at the drags with ice on there aluminum intakes?? To cool them down and inturn cool down the air passing through it.
So if the statment "air's passing through it too fast to absorb the heat" were true, why do we ice our aluminum intakes??
Would the same hold true for the cool temp of the intake?

I've heard that trick is worth only a few hundredths of a second in the quarter mile at best, which means the benefit of a plastic intake that may be a few degrees cooler then an aluminum one would be nil.

JLTucker · Feb 9, 2006

"Because the airflow velocity inside the intake is so high that the air does not have sufficient time to absorb any amount of heat from the intake's walls in order to reduce engine performance."

If you were at WOT all the time I could say this statment is plausable, but most of the time your throttle blade is only slightly open, ie crusing at speed, idling at a light or in the staging lanes waiting to run.

I've heard that trick is worth only a few hundredths of a second in the quarter mile at best

Key words: I've heard
Fact is heat is a performance killer. The cooler you can make the inlet air the more power you will make. This is proven fact, sorry if you disagree.

Prove it to yourself. Next time your at the track or on the dyno. Do 3 hot laps with no cool down. I bet your times and HP will get worse.

Now, do 3 runs with ample cool down and ice on your intake inbetween. You WILL see better #'s and times.

It works everytime, I've done it at the track and on the dyno. The cooler you can make the incoming air the more oxygen the air will have the faster it will burn and the more power you WILL make.

The idea is to eliminate parts that will add heat to the motor. Plastic is the best choice for doing this. Why did Ford make there intakes from plastic after 1995?

Please understand I'm not trying to argue, but to get the facts out there. I do understand you wanting to defend the kit you have, it's a great kit, but I stand behind the facts. You can't take away the physical properities of metals.
Jay

ski · Feb 10, 2006

JLTucker said:
If you were at WOT all the time I could say this statment is plausable, but most of the time your throttle blade is only slightly open, ie crusing at speed, idling at a light or in the staging lanes waiting to run.

For the 4.6L Mustang GT engine, the air velocity inside a 4" diameter intake tube at 750 rpm idle speed is 11.6 fps, which translates to 17 hundredths of a second contact time for a 2 foot long tube. Cruising at 1500 rpm in overdrive drops the contact time to 85 thousandths of a second. Not a whole bunch of time for the air to pick up any appreciable amount of heat from a hot conduit, or for that matter to give up any appreciable heat to a cool conduit.

JLTucker said:
Do 3 hot laps with no cool down. I bet your times and HP will get worse. Now, do 3 runs with ample cool down and ice on your intake in between. You WILL see better #'s and times.

Now you're talking about a completely different situation. The entire engine is being allowed to cool down, which in turn decreases the temperature of the air surrounding the engine, and will thus allow cooler air to be inhaled by the engine. I agree that doing this will definitely improve times and hp, but it will do so even without icing down the intake.
On the other hand, all I stated was that icing down the intake is worth only a few thousandths in the 1/4.

JLTucker said:
Why did Ford make there intakes from plastic after 1995?

In order to reduce costs. Fabricating an intake manifold from plastic is less costly than making it from either aluminum or cast iron.
Last summer I turned off the engine after a hard run with the ambient temp around 90 F, and felt both the aluminum C&L intake and the plastic intake manifold. The C&L was just slightly warm to the touch(immediately adjacent to the throttle body), and the entire manifold was hot.

JLTucker · Feb 10, 2006

I can see were not going to agree on anything, so I will say, I agree to disagree.

BTW, the C&L is no where near 4"ID.

Great chat,
Jay

ski · Feb 11, 2006

Same here. I always enjoy having a friendly debate.
I selected a 4" tube for simplicity, because its internal area is approximately the same as that for a C&L, which starts out at approx. 4", decreases to 3", and finally increases to a 3" x 5" oval. This translates to an avg. x-sectional area that's actually slightly less than that of a 4" I.D. tube, and thus the C&L's internal air velocity and air-to-intake wall contact time are actually faster and shorter, respectively, when compared to a 4" I.D. tube. And we both know that's good for keeping the inlet air cool.

06 White GT · Feb 11, 2006

I really enjoyed the debate also! That is just what I was wanting in this thread.
I am going to go with the JLT II Intake/XCal2 with Fred from Evolution Performance. Unless anyone has any further suggestions or advise.
I am pretty sure I will get the Flowmaster axle backs ($275) and a Steeda Underdrive Pulley System ($199.95) as the three first mods to my GT. If anyone might have any advice or comments I would appreciate it. Thanks!!

red05bullitgt · Feb 12, 2006

J DeMolet said:
SKI: Real Carbon fiber and Polycarbonates are MORE expensive materials than a metal system.
Labor costs are also higher with the composite laminated type of construction in my
system.

If what you claim is true...then explain to me, why your kit retails for around $185.00? as compared to the C&L that retails for around $399.00..seems to me if you're material costs are more expensive, along with your labor costs also being higher, then it boils down to one of two things..Either you're facts are completly way off, or your obviously cutting you're own throat, by giving your customers one hell of a discount, and I'm sorry, but what you claim, just does not add up nor make any sense, after all.. nobody is that generous, and lets just say that even if you were.. how could you make enough of a profit to survive ?? just my &.02 I suppose

fullsagd · Feb 12, 2006

JLTucker said:
...Aluminum is a "super conductor" and a "heat sink" meaning it's the 3rd fastest metal to absorb heat and transfere it. (gold and silver are 1&2)
So if it absorbs the heat fast then transferes it... Where is it transfering it to?? The air passing through it.
The marketing tool of "air is going through it so fast it doesn't heat up" is not so.
If you can't touch the pipe because it's hot, the air going through it will be hotter then a pipe that is cool to the touch. This is fact.

Plastic is not going to heat up faster then aluminum. it's fact not hear say.

Why do you see people at the drags with ice on there aluminum intakes?? To cool them down and inturn cool down the air passing through it.
So if the statment "air's passing through it too fast to absorb the heat" were true, why do we ice our aluminum intakes??
Would the same hold true for the cool temp of the intake?

thermal conductivity values
Ag=429
Cu=401
Au=317
Al=237
(W/m K)
basically, a heat sink in thermodynamics is the "colder" body that the "hot" body gives up energy to. take, for instance, a condenser in a power generating station. the heat sink is the cooling water, not the condenser itself.
the heat transfer to the fluid is dependent on velocity (among other factors) so the aluminum tranfser medium will heat the air more readily than plastic although the plastic will not dissipate heat at the rate that aluminum does.
there are some plastics manufactured today that have a higher thermal conductivity that Al, but you wouldn't find them in air intakes.
not trying to be a smart @$$, just trying to shed some light.

Kyle F · Feb 12, 2006

06 White GT said:
I really enjoyed the debate also! That is just what I was wanting in this thread.
I am going to go with the JLT II Intake/XCal2 with Fred from Evolution Performance. Unless anyone has any further suggestions or advise.
I am pretty sure I will get the Flowmaster axle backs ($275) and a Steeda Underdrive Pulley System ($199.95) as the three first mods to my GT. If anyone might have any advice or comments I would appreciate it. Thanks!!

Good choice, but I prefer the C&L... so I bought it.

Anyways... make sure you get the 93 Tune from Fred... I love mine.

ramjetlx · Feb 14, 2006

Evo Performance said:
I totally disagree! The two best intakes on the market that has been proven over and over again on the dyno are the JLT II True Cold Air Intake and C&L MAF Intake system with an SCT Custom tuned XCalibrator 2! I have dynod and tuned every combination and the two I listed yielded the most power gain, well over the AFE, Ford Racing, Steeda, K&N. The K&N and AFE aren't even in the same league as the JLT and C&L. The K&N and AFE retain the stock Mass Air Flow housing, which doesn't allow you to gain barely any horsepower. The JLT and C&L have completely bigger Mass Air Flow housing, which coupled with a custom tuned SCT XCalibrator 2 gains over 34 rear wheel horsepower and 32 foot pounds of torque. Any intake that doesn't require a tune gained no more then 5 horsepower on my dyno. The AFE, Ford Racing, K&N and any other intake that doesn't require a tune from the start is a complete waste of money. If you buy one of those intakes that don’t require a tune right out of the box and you add a SCT XCalibrator2, the only gains you will see in from the tuner (XCal2) so why not just by the right intake/XCal2 combo and get the full horsepower/torque gain and not just half!

Just my 2 cents

I've only dynod ever CAI that is made for the 05/06 Mustang and have factual information regarding what works and what doesn't!

ramjetlx · Feb 14, 2006

Sorry, problems with computer!!!

ramjetlx · Feb 14, 2006

red05bullitgt said:
If what you claim is true...then explain to me, why your kit retails for around $185.00? as compared to the C&L that retails for around $399.00..seems to me if you're material costs are more expensive, along with your labor costs also being higher, then it boils down to one of two things..Either you're facts are completly way off, or your obviously cutting you're own throat, by giving your customers one hell of a discount, and I'm sorry, but what you claim, just does not add up nor make any sense, after all.. nobody is that generous, and lets just say that even if you were.. how could you make enough of a profit to survive ?? just my &.02 I suppose

I totally support the Tunable Induction kit with an SCT tune. For the money its well worth every penny. Check out my sig for my best time with just this kit!!! And I know Im having traction issues and can go lower. Last week I saw a guy running a JLTII with SCT tune on his stock 05. His best was a 13.8. 60 foot was a 2.0 with average reaction times in the high .500's. Now that would really piss me off to spend alot of money and run only a 13.8 with a manual, when Im using the Tuneable Induction kit and busting out 13.4's in an automatic, with the potential to go even lower. We can all brag about dyno numbers and how the JLTII and C&L are the best out of everyone, but the most important thing is how it does in the real world. I believe dyno's are effective at selling, but my vote for the best bang for the buck CAI goes to this Tuneable Induction kit. I have real world expirance to back it up and do not ever regret getting it.

Evo Performance · Feb 14, 2006

ramjetlx said:
I totally support the Tunable Induction kit with an SCT tune. For the money its well worth every penny. Check out my sig for my best time with just this kit!!! And I know Im having traction issues and can go lower. Last week I saw a guy running a JLTII with SCT tune on his stock 05. His best was a 13.8. 60 foot was a 2.0 with average reaction times in the high .500's. Now that would really piss me off to spend alot of money and run only a 13.8 with a manual, when Im using the Tuneable Induction kit and busting out 13.4's in an automatic, with the potential to go even lower. We can all brag about dyno numbers and how the JLTII and C&L are the best out of everyone, but the most important thing is how it does in the real world. I believe dyno's are effective at selling, but my vote for the best bang for the buck CAI goes to this Tuneable Induction kit. I have real world expirance to back it up and do not ever regret getting it.

My 2005 Mustang GT Automatic ran a 13.6 completely BONE stock (400 Miles on the odometer!) With the addition of a JLT Intake, an Evolution Performance Custom Tuned XCal2, 4:30 Gears, Panhard Bar/Brace, and a 3rd Link (Upper Control Arm), I was able to hit 12.82 @108 on stock tires!

I guess the Tunable Induction kit with an "Amateur" Custom SCT tune isn't that great......... 13.4's??? I give it a

Kyle F · Feb 15, 2006

Evo Performance said:
I guess the Tunable Induction kit with an "Amateur" Custom SCT tune isn't that great......... 13.4's??? I give it a

Hey your taking out the largest factor... the driver.

Running a manual also affets this more. I guess it really depends on how much that intake worked for him based off how much of an improvement he made over his previous runs

The Dyno is not good for selling, under proper testing conditions it takes driver erro out of the equation and can give you quantifiable measurements to the changes.

JLTucker · Feb 15, 2006

I've seen Kenne Bell Cobras running 12.4's and I run 11.20's with the stock Eaton. So the Eatons a better blower, by the statment above.

Too many variables in track testing, it can't be done. Sorry.

Does anyone have any input on this CAI

start with the upper hole, and if more traction is

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