Does Ford want to go under?

351CJ said:

Except that Ford makes about $10,000 profit on a typical SUV, $8,000 on the typical F150, $3,000 on a typical Crown Vic or Mustang, Maybe $1,500 on a new Fusion and Ford looses at least $1,000 on a typical Focus.

As long as Ford can make big $$ selling SUVs they would be foolish to do otherwise.

By the way I agree that 80% of the people driving around in big SUVs have NO need for them what so ever. They are more a fashion statement than anything else.

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Your figures are way off there bro, Fseries are five figures, Mustang does better than $1500 and the Fusion does better than a Mustang.

I don't know about those Hybrids.
They cost more than a comparable vehicle, are way more complex, and then they will probably need the batteries replaced every 4-5 years when they don't hold a full charge anymore. I think in 5-7 years you'll hear about all the nightmare maintenance on these things and the resale value will drop dramatically.

Diesels aren't much better, since (at least here in CA) diesel costs more than premium. Even with the better mileage, a diesel will have a very hard time beating a car that runs on regular in the most important criteria of all: dollars per mile.

And SUV's are driven for many reasons. I have a a family, boat, ATV's, go skiing, that kind of thing, but a lot of people drive them for the added safety (they are still safer than a car in a crash, mass usually wins) and visibility, as well as the ability to do everything with one vehicle.
I like my 04 Expedition, it does everything. I can afford the gas, and the truck, so I bought it. I got 0% financing, and I like the feeling of buying American.
It's boring to drive though, which is why I have the 00 GT vert.
That's America for you...

351CJ said:

Except that Ford makes about $10,000 profit on a typical SUV, $8,000 on the typical F150, $3,000 on a typical Crown Vic or Mustang, Maybe $1,500 on a new Fusion and Ford looses at least $1,000 on a typical Focus.

As long as Ford can make big $$ selling SUVs they would be foolish to do otherwise.

By the way I agree that 80% of the people driving around in big SUVs have NO need for them what so ever. They are more a fashion statement than anything else.

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That's all good and all, and like posted above I think the figures are a little off, but just because SUV's make more money per sold doesnt mean they wouldnt being doing much better selling $2000 profiting vehicles 1 million times over (collectively counting the car segment sales hypothetically). The F150 is a great selling truck right now, but even still another good seller like the early 90's Taurus really boosts their figures and profits.

I too agree that there are people who dont fully utilize an SUV to validate the purchase, but I am also saying it isnt as overboard or accurate to try to tell how many just by observing society in daily drives. Some people do like buying SUV because they think it is the thing to do just because and well I guess that is their perogative (long live democracy and commerce), not that I agree with it.

Alec said:

Ford and Gm need to phase out these expensive guzzlers. Didn't this happen in the 70's? Detroit was building land yachts and the Japanese slipped in and bamm..the rest is history.
You can haul, tow your boat, move people, or whatever with a regular pickup or van. I'm quite sure someone will buy the "Everest" after all GM sold a few Asteks
Stick a fork in it, the luxury SUV and the "Cowboy Cadillac" pickup market is done.

Now for a sign of the apocalypse
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-12-15-china-cars-usat_x.htm

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Then why are the Japanese tripping over themselves to get deeper and deeper into the Land Yacht business?

Why is Toyota opening a new assembly plant in San Antonio to make it's largest pickup truck ever?

Dyoct said:

Your figures are way off there bro, Fseries are five figures, Mustang does better than $1500 and the Fusion does better than a Mustang.

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You misread my post, I said $3,000 for the Mustang.

In any case I know my numbers aren't exactly right.
The point I was making was that Ford makes far more profit on their large BOF SUVs and pickups than any car Ford produces and that Ford looses money on small cars like the Focus. I was trying to point out to Alec that his logic is flawed, it would be financial suicide for Ford to intentionally reduce sales of its large SUVs and pickups.

Also, the Fusion's profitablilty can't yet be fully judged as it is a new model. We have to see how it is selling a year or two from now and if it will require incentives.

Same with the Mustang. Profits for the Mustang in 2005 are a new model anomoly. Sales are already slowing and we both know that it won't be long before incentives will be required to keep Mustang sales going.

Its probably much cheaper for Ford to fill a segment with and extended Expedition than build an entirely different vehicle. I dont see how you think Ford will go under because of this.

:worthlesa

Funny how you guys have all of the answers and most of you probably sell underpants at Sears.

If you hate SUVs that much, don't purchase one. I have an Infinity QX-56 because I want a large comfortable luxury vehicle to take on road trips and to drive around town in. That is why I purchased a large gas guzzling SUV. It is 4wd because we have ice storms 1-2times a year.

My family is small, my wife, my 8 yr old won and I. I looked at allot of cars, Caddilacs, Lincolns, BMWs and others and I chose the SUV because I wanted it and because I can afford it.

For the record, I had a 2003 Expediton Eddie Bauer, it was a pretty good truck but if fails in comparison to the Infity in every category.

"they are still safer than a car in a crash, mass usually wins"

The safest vehicles are full sized sedans. SUVs have an advantage in a collision with another smaller vehicle but because SUVs are so much more likely to roll-over, they have a higher fatality rate than cars. People get ejected during roll-overs and that is a very bad thing.

As for the Japanese manufacturers going deeper into the land yacht business - the Nissan Titan and Armada are sales flops selling at less than one-half projected volumes. Toyota made the decision to build a plant in Tx years ago when fuel was cheaper. Since they have a meaningless share of the pick-up market their investment might still pay off. Anyway, Toyota has money to burn.

My first truck was a '73 Blazer, then I had 3 Suburbans, to my current 1995 diesel Suburban. I've had pick up trucks and I would never ever buy another, especially since I have four dump trucks that do everything a pickup can much better. I'm actually waiting for GM to bring back the diesel suburbans. For most an SUV makes more sense than a pickup truck. They have better weight distribution, are better in snow/rain, hold more people, have a better ride, more comfortable seating, and the stuff people put in the back is usually luggage, shopping bags, or some stuff picked up from the home depot (things that would normally be exposed to the elements in a pickup).

An SUV is easier to park too, less of a blind spot than a van/mini-van and easier to judge the ends and corners. I don't know too many (mini)vans that are RWD with selectable 4wd with both a Low and High range (and I hate that automatic AWD stuff, there are times when I don't want all my wheels spinning). I don't see too many vans with plows either, while SUVs make excellent plow vehicles (which is why we still have two '70's Blazers we use for plowing). Plus with the Suburban I like that on long trips towing my snowmobile trailer up to New York State or heading down to Florida the kids can sit in the third row with the second row folded down they can stretch their legs out, watch tv, have a table, and reach the stuff behind them. Then with my 22mpg, 42 gallon tank, and comfortable kids I can make it in half the time than if I was in my Mustang.

I've gone from NJ to SC with no stops, the rest of the family driving various cars and gas (small) SUVs didn't get there until 45+ minutes after us. As to the safety of it, a guy side swiped me on the highway when I was driving the wife’s Explorer, we did a complete 360 spin, never flipped, and the only damage I had was cosmetic (bumper, running boards, door panel), I and my family walked away unharmed. The other guy was totaled with injuries and he wasn't even on the collision side. An SUV is definitely safer than your average 4/5 seater car, quite a few of my friends and people that worked for us are living proof to that.

All in all, I love large SUVs and will buy them over a similar sized Van or Pickup every time and I know plenty of guys (and girls) out there just like me. It's my hard earned money and if I want to spend it on an SUV, Corvette, classic car, or Sherman tank that's my business. If you don't like SUVs that's fine, buy a car. I've got cars and trucks and I like both equally, but for different reasons. It's funny that I don't hear too many people that drive trucks/SUVs complain about people who drive cars (well, except when I see the moron with the washing machine poorly strapped to the roof of his compact car because he didn't have the foresight to have a friend with a larger vehicle help him). Maybe it's just envy. All I know is I'm tired of people complaining about it. When gas and Diesel was 3.10 a gallon I was still happy to be driving my SUVs, I just remember my cousin in Germany paying $5 a Liter and I smile.

By the way, Good Job Ford with the extended Expedition (especially if you offer a diesel), I bet it will sell a lot better than the Excursion, which was just too big for many to feel comfortable driving.