Does no one install R&P without a kit?

Booksix · May 21, 2007

I've been looking everywhere... doesn't anyone just do something like grab a pump, hoses and the rack from a fox mustang (for example) and fab up some brackets to use this in a classic 'stang?

It just seems ridiculous to me that a r&p kit would just about cost me what a MII kit (WITH r&p included) would cost... thoughts?

rbohm · May 21, 2007

you can just grab a steering rack, and a pump and hoses, fab up some brackets and bolt a system in. you have to take into consideration silly little things like steering and suspension geometry, rack travel, turning radius, mount strength, etc. when you buy a kit, you are also buying the engineering behind the kit. remember that you want to at least duplicate the stock geometry as closely as possible.

Booksix · May 21, 2007

Yeah, I understand all this. I guess it just surprises me that no one has done it and posted anything...

68EFIvert · May 21, 2007

I started out down this path. I fabricated a mount the goes where the engine crossmember is. Took a rack from an 86 Taurus, inner tie rods from an 81 Granada, outer tie rods from a mustang II. It all bolted up to my Granada Spindles. I noticed the turning radius was quite a bit shorter and I started to think about bumpsteer, header clearance and all the other things. When it was all said and done I put $500 into it and scrapped the idea. I even got a compliment from a suspension guy but I ended up going with a steeroids rack. I just didn't feel comfortable with so many unknown variables. And one last think I made hoses from a kit from Gotta Show. Learn from my mistake and buy a kit. It will save you time and we all should know time is money.

Booksix · May 21, 2007

Great input. That makes sense, I guess I just didn't think about time and money trying different parts and what not...

bnickel · May 22, 2007

Booksix said:
Great input. That makes sense, I guess I just didn't think about time and money trying different parts and what not...

you might also try doing a search. there have been literally dozens of threads on this very thing over the years. some people have used taurus racks, cavalier racks, 240sx racks, etc. do some research and you'll find ton's of info and most all of it will point you in the direction of buying a kit, not all of them but most of them. but the simple fact is that if you don't have some basic understanding of bumpsteer, roll centers, weight jacking, ackermann angles, etc. you don't even need to attempt it.

better yet do a search on www.corner-carvers.com and ask some basic questions there and see what that turns up.

yeloxr7 · May 22, 2007

BTW a Fox rack will not work (nor will a Pinto or Mustang II rack) as they are set up for front steering and the rack moves in the wrong direction for our purposes.

There was a guy in Sweden a few years back who developed a mounting bracket to install a Taurus rack in an early Mustang. It worked fairly well, but I believe there were bump-steer issues and the turning radius was huge.

bnickel · May 22, 2007

yeloxr7 said:
BTW a Fox rack will not work (nor will a Pinto or Mustang II rack) as they are set up for front steering and the rack moves in the wrong direction for our purposes.

There was a guy in Sweden a few years back who developed a mounting bracket to install a Taurus rack in an early Mustang. It worked fairly well, but I believe there were bump-steer issues and the turning radius was huge.

you are confusing Hakan and Chepsk8. Chepsk8 did the taurus rack and yes there were some bumpsteer issues but he installed a bumpsteer kit and corrected that problem. Hakan is the guy from Sweden and his rack solution is very clever, in fact it's so clever that Flaming River has stolen his design and is using it on their new power rack kits. he took and normal end take off rack and spent a lot of money having a new center link cast that ataches to the rack in the normal end take off tie rod positions but attaches the tie rods to the center of the new center link just like the original mustang tie rods did.

so Flaming River can't engineer their own stuff to save their ass.

jikelly · May 23, 2007

I've got a 73 mustang, so there is no kit for a rack an pinion conversion. I guess there aren't enough of us big body car owners out there to make it worth developing.

Anyway, me and a few guys really looked into developing a rack conversion kit for our body style. There was one guy who had done it, but he cut out the front crossmember on his 71 to do it, and we were trying to get around doing that. The plan was to do a set up like Hakan's where the rack basically attaches to a modified center link.

I finally dropped that project after we failed to find a suitable rack. We could have kept going with it because you can have custom racks made, but I decided against it because there are so many suspension geometry issues to work out, and I fully admit that my knowledge in that area is lacking. I figured the setup on there, while heavy and a bit sloppier than I'd like, had been designed by competent engineers and working fine for 30 some-odd years. So I just bought a new steering gearbox.

Maybe I'll try again one day. I sure wish the new stangs weren't front steer. Hey maybe I could swap spindles somehow?

bnickel · May 23, 2007

Jikelly, i think the reason no one has developed a rack kit for the big body cars is that they already have the integral type power steering gearbox available and it is a much better system than the hang on bendix style us early guys have. in fact, an integral type box would be a better solution for the early cars too, but there isn't one that will fit in the available space, well except for some of the smaller import cars but that's kinda like putting an Escort rack in one of these cars, tiny.

rbohm · May 23, 2007

one possible idea for a steering rack is a sweet rack or a woodward rack. these are designed for race cars, and can be had in a variety of lengths, steering ratios, and travel. they can also be had in manual or power steering as well.

turtle99 · May 23, 2007

FYI

The TCP rack is from Woodward, well the servo anyways, the rest is custom IIRC

bnickel · May 24, 2007

turtle99 said:
FYI

The TCP rack is from Woodward, well the servo anyways, the rest is custom IIRC

that is correct

pazur · Jul 9, 2007

Still nobody found out some good swap? Is this web page somehow affiliated with vendors of those $x000 r&p kits?

rbohm · Jul 9, 2007

how about this?

http://www.tffn.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3397

uses a bmw 325i rack

bnickel · Jul 9, 2007

pazur said:
Still nobody found out some good swap? Is this web page somehow affiliated with vendors of those $x000 r&p kits?

you should do a search and find the big 50 something page thread about rack kits, i think it's titled "TCP rack now $2500" or something along those lines. there are taurus rack caonversions, GM J-car conversions, one from a nissan 240-SX, i talk about one that was done with a dodge caravan rack and there are others as well.

or you could do what i did and troll around ebay for a while until you get lucky, i bought a TCP rack (just the rack) on ebay for a couple hundred bucks and the install kit from TCP will be about $500 so in the end i will have a TCP rack for under 800 bucks

rbohm · Jul 10, 2007

bnickel said:
you should do a search and find the big 50 something page thread about rack kits, i think it's titled "TCP rack now $2500" or something along those lines. there are taurus rack caonversions, GM J-car conversions, one from a nissan 240-SX, i talk about one that was done with a dodge caravan rack and there are others as well.

or you could do what i did and troll around ebay for a while until you get lucky, i bought a TCP rack (just the rack) on ebay for a couple hundred bucks and the install kit from TCP will be about $500 so in the end i will have a TCP rack for under 800 bucks

that was in interesting thread. i forgot about that one.

here it is by the way;

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=128170&page=2&highlight=TCP+rack+now+$2500

bnickel · Jul 10, 2007

rbohm said:
that was in interesting thread. i forgot about that one.

here it is by the way;

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=128170&page=2&highlight=TCP+rack+now+$2500

yeah there was lot's of good info in that thread, for sure. that thread had led me to the Randalls rack kit which was what i was going to buy and had i not come across that TCP rack for the price i got it for i would have gone with Randall's kit and still would. i honestly think that Randall has the best rack kit going right now and considering the parts availability of the J-car rack it's based on it would be the better choice for a driver type car than the TCP rack, however if you can get the TCP rack for even less than Randall's rack, like i did, there isn't much to debate.

Does no one install R&P without a kit?

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