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eec relay problems

  • Thread starter Thread starter 93tsiawd
  • Start date Start date Mar 27, 2011
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
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South Jersey
Mar 27, 2011
#1
  • Mar 27, 2011
  • #1
ok I check my spark today looking for a miss. Got yellow low volt spark.

1. I checked voltage from Red/Green wire .5 volts

2. Unhooked connecter by drivers side firewall Got 12v not connected

3. jumped wire to Coil and TFI wont start( I guess no volts going to eec relay?)

4. Hooked it all back up and it starts at .5 volts!

5. located relay lools like hell to get out but im goin to pull in after this and see if I get 12v at connector hopefully proving its the culpret

has anyone every seen this happen before with the eec relay, Fuel pump is hard wired so I never though about it comming on and Ignition start doesnt work either I install a push button when I bought the car. Please Help need advice
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
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South Jersey
Mar 27, 2011
#2
  • Mar 27, 2011
  • #2
more

ok pulled the connector I have relay # E3UF-12A646 And no change stii .5 volts

Also When Key Is off It has 12 volts?

Starting to think it the ignition. What if I take ignition out of loop? and Hard wire to the battery?
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
1
0
South Jersey
Mar 27, 2011
#3
  • Mar 27, 2011
  • #3
tps

could the tps or something in the dizzy be grounding out? just a thought. Ill post tomarow with hopefully some good news
 

jrichker

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Mar 28, 2011
#4
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #4
How the TFI ignition works in 86-93 model Mustangs:

Tools needed: DVM, noid light, safety pin.

Theory of operation:
The TFI ignition in 86-93 Mustangs has 4 main components: the ignition switch, the coil, the TFI module and the PIP sensor inside the distributor.

The ignition switch gets power from the two yellow wires that are supplied power by a fuse link located in the wiring harness that connects to the starter solenoid.

Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds


The coil is mounted on the driver’s side strut tower on most EFI Mustangs. It gets power from a red/green wire and a brown/pink wire from the ignition switch. That wire from the ignition switch feeds a 20 gauge blue fuse link that connects to the red/green wire. The fuse link protects the wiring and the ignition switch, since the fuse link for the two yellow power supply wires has a much higher current rating. Without the smaller fuse link protecting the smaller wiring used in the ignition circuit, a short there would cause the red/green wire to overheat and burn up.

The TFI module is mounted on the side of the distributor and supplies the ground for the coil. Every automotive power supply circuit uses the ground as the return path to carry power back to the negative side of the battery. The TFI switches the tan/yellow wire coming from the coil to ground. It gets power from the red/green wire when the ignition switch is in the Run position. The red/lt blue wire supplies a signal to turn on more power (dwell time) when the engine is cranking. The trigger signal comes from the PIP sensor when cranking and the computer when the engine is running. The SPOUT jumper plug enables computer controlled spark advance. When the SPOUT is removed, spark advance is locked at the setting determined by the mechanical position of the distributor.

The PIP sensor is in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. It is a Hall effect magnetic sensor that senses a change in the magnetic field when one of the slots in the shutter wheel uncovers the sensor. Then it supplies a pulse that triggers the TFI module to provide a ground to the ignition coil. A bad PIP will often set code 14 in the computer and cause hot start problems. Replacing the PIP sensor requires removal of the distributor and pressing the gear off the distributor shaft to expose the sensor. For most people, a remanufactured distributor ($55-$75) is the solution, since they may not have access to a press.

Troubleshooting the ignition system – no spark or weak spark. All the tests are done with the ignition switch in the Run position unless specified otherwise. A safety pin may be used to probe the wiring connectors from the back side.
1.) Check for 12 volts at the yellow wires on the ignition switch. No 12 volts and the fuse link near the starter solenoid has open circuited.
2.) Check for 12 volts on the red/green and brown/pink wires coming out of the ignition switch. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch.
3.) Check for 12 volts at the ignition coil. No 12 volts and the blue 20 gauge fuse link has open circuited.
4.) Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you have wiring problems.
5.) Remove the small red/blue wire from the starter solenoid (looks like it is stuck on a screw). This is a safety measure to keep the engine from turning while you are making measurements. Have a helper turn the ignition switch to Start and look for 12 volts on the red/lt blue wire on the TFI module. No 12 volts and you will have starting problems, but push starting the car will work OK. No 12 volts, replace the ignition switch. Be sure to reconnect the red/blue wire to the starter when you finish.
6.) A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the PIP pulse. The computer uses the PIP signal to trigger the fuel injectors. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and it will flash if the PIP is working. No flash from the noid light and the PIP is suspect. To confirm the PIP is being the source of the non flashing noid light, look for 12 volts on the red injector wiring. Good 12 volts and no flashing noid light means the PIP has failed.
7.) Remove the SPOUT plug from the harness and try to start the engine. If it starts, replace the PIP. This is a common no start condition when the engine is hot.
8.) The TFI module is a go/no go item when you have a no spark/weak spark condition on a cold engine. It either works or it doesn’t.
The TFI failure mode on a running car is usually a high speed miss on a warm engine. Many auto parts stores will test your TFI module for free. Bring along a hair dryer to get it hot while testing it and run several test cycles, since it often gets weak when it heats up.
The coil is somewhat more difficult to pinpoint as a problem. A good coil will make a nice fat blue spark 3/8”-1/2” long. The problem is that one person’s perception of a fat blue spark looks like may not be accurate enough to spot a weak coil. The coil is cheap enough ($13-$16) that having a known good working spare might be a good idea.

diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2Birds


See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Wiring & Engine Info Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Vacuum diagram 89-93 Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/mustangFoxFordVacuumDiagram.jpg

HVAC vacuum diagram
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/Mustang_AC_heat_vacuum_controls.gif

TFI module differences & pinout
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/TFI_5.0_comparison.gif
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
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0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#5
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #5
Todays goals

Thanks for the info.. Im going to run down to napa and get a new distributor and ignition switch.

If that dosent fix problem I guess I got some more tracing to do. I have made it to tfi jumping wires from the drivers firwall connector. But soon as I hook it up to the harness that runs under the upper intake manifld it goes back to .5
I have located the eec relay and I am goin to jump my 12 volt jumpers to connector and see if it stays 12v proving its the harness wire. or if not I have no clue.
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
1
0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#6
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #6
uggg

Well I pulled out dash, figured while its out ill replace my leaking heater core.
anyways still no luck gotta be a wire in the harness so down to the junk yard and goin to spilce in a hacked up harness from the ignition switch-coil-tfi-eec relay and see what happens any ideas would be great help
 
Reactions: Creomod

jrichker

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Mar 28, 2011
#7
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #7
You can hack at it bit by bit or take the checklist procedure I posted and go through it step by step... Don't throw parts at a problem hoping to fix it. You have three tools to use in your efforts to find the root cause of the problem: measure, observe and think!. Use these three tools to narrow down the list of possible failure points into a small, easily managed list of items.

A word about the checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
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0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#8
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #8
here we go again

dizzy in, and new ignition switch, It now wants to start with the key

But wont fire up unless i Hook up the original red/ green and soon as i do back to .5 volts

Here what I have found also The eec relay clicks and also one under the hood next to mass which looks to send a red/blue to starter solinod which is also clicking Im lost they must be touching somewere or bad ground dunno it getting dark Im going to get the drop light out and see if I can trace this wire.
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
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0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#9
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #9
found more wrong

I have a CONSTANT 12V on Coil Both sides And At TFI

Key on drops to .5 Volts

Someone hacked off the blue fusable link And All the fusable links actually by the ignition switch. Im trying to trace wires Starting from ignition going tward the coil. It looks like it goes from ignition switch to fuse block very thick gauge there 14 It looks like.
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
1
0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#10
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #10
right at brown pink juction red/green goes to tach? and then to I cant find Fusable link is it before or after firewall?
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
1
0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#11
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #11
ok cant find that blue 20 gauge fuse I think its open as you stated but I can locate it.
 
9

93tsiawd

New Member
Sep 9, 2010
34
1
0
South Jersey
Mar 28, 2011
#12
  • Mar 28, 2011
  • #12
OK Finaly Got it !!!! Here Is what happend.... An owner before me decided when the fuel pump relay broke. that it was a good idea to cut off the relay and hard wire it. But it came with consequence for me anyway, becuase somehow it left the (red/green- which is yellow/black after the ecc relay) open and let all the volts "come out" of the wire there. (I guess) Soon as i solterd it togther I got 12v everywere! all I need is a Relay tommarow, And Put the dash back in lol. Thankyou jricher for you troubleshoot and diagrams.
 
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