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electrical problem, help please

  • Thread starter Thread starter project 87 5.0
  • Start date Start date Jan 14, 2011
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project 87 5.0

Member
Feb 22, 2010
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sanford, florida
Jan 14, 2011
#1
  • Jan 14, 2011
  • #1
I bought the car a while ago. the fuel guage never worked stayed on empty. last night i found out the hard way by the MAN that i didnt have brake lights. after checking fuses, i had 3 blown, one of which was the 5 amp. I put new fuses in but now with key on or running fuel needle stays on E. When i turn on lights it goes slap up past full. i have no clue where to start. thanks
oh yea its all stock except for steeda springs and exhaust
 

HISSIN50

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Nov 29, 1999
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Jan 14, 2011
#2
  • Jan 14, 2011
  • #2
The gauge moves most likely due to a grounding issue.

Do you need help fixing the lights or are they good for now?
 
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project 87 5.0

Member
Feb 22, 2010
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0
7
sanford, florida
Jan 14, 2011
#3
  • Jan 14, 2011
  • #3
the lights work now, i think it happend when my hazard switch plug fell apart and touched. i just cant figure out where to look to fix the fuel gauge. i replaced the sending unit about 6 months ago but that didnt make it work. it just stayed on empty
 

HISSIN50

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Nov 29, 1999
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Jan 14, 2011
#4
  • Jan 14, 2011
  • #4
Are you sure the guage-end of your fuel level system are up to par? The gauge, its wiring, and Anti-slosh module come to mind.

Did you bench test the sender when you had it out (check for resistance change as the sender moved through it's arc)?
 

jrichker

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#5
  • Jan 15, 2011
  • #5
Fuel Quantity gauge troubleshooting 87-93 Mustangs



The red/yellow wire (power supply to gauge & sender) should have 12 volts when the ignition is in the start or Run position.

Troubleshooting the gauge and sender circuit:
Since the sender uses a variable resistor, sum the resistor values of 22 Ohms (empty value) & 145 Ohms (full value). That gets you 167, which you divide by 2: that gets you 83.5. So in theory, 83.5 ohms is 1/2 full. A trip to Radio Shack for the closest combination of resistors to make 83.5 ohms gets you one 68 Ohm (Catalog #: 271-1106) + one 15 Ohm (Catalog #: 271-1102) for a total of 83 Ohms at the cost of $2 plus tax. Wire the resistors in series to make a resistor pack and cover it with heat shrink tubing or electrical tape. The 83 Ohms is close enough to the 83.5 Ohm figure that it shouldn't matter. Disconnect the electrical connector shown in your for the tank sender unit. Connect one end of the resistor pack to the yellow/white wire on the body side fuel sender electrical connector and the other end of the resistor pack to ground. Make sure nothing is touching that isn't supposed to and turn the ignition switch to Run. If I am correct, the fuel gauge will read 1/2 full, or very close to it. If it does not, then the odds are that the gauge or anti-slosh unit are bad.

How and why the test works…
Most of the fuel gauge failures give a stuck on full or stuck on empty as a problem symptom. Using a resistor combination that mimics 1/2 tank allows you to decide if the gauge and anti-slosh module are the problem source.

If the gauge reads about 1/2 tank with the resistor combination, that points to the sender as being the culprit.

If the gauge reads full or empty with the resistor pack in place of the sender, then the gauge or anti-slosh module is at fault.

Fuel gauge sender testing and replacement
The next steps require dropping the fuel tank and removal of the fuel level sender. Here are some useful tips...

I have done the tank removal three times, and the main issues are getting the car up on jack stands and getting the gas out of the tank. DO NOT try to do this job without jack stands. Becoming a pancake is not part of the repair process.

Pumping out the old gas:
If the old pump still works, you can use it to pump the tank out.
1.) Separate the pressure line (the one with the Schrader valve on it) using the fuel line tools.
Look in the A/C repair section for the fuel line tools. They look like little plastic top hats. You will need the 1/2" & 5/8" ones. The hat shaped section goes on facing the large part of the coupling. Then you press hard on the brim until it forces the sleeve into the coupling and releases the spring. You may need someone to pull on the line while you press on the coupling.


Use a piece of garden hose to run from the pressure line to your bucket or gas can. Make sure it is as leak proof as you can make it. Fire and explosion are not part of the repair process...

2.) Jumper the fuel pump test point to ground.

Turn the ignition switch to the Run position. the fuel pump will pump the tank almost dry unless the battery runs down first.

Some 5 gallon paint pails lined with garbage bags are good to hold the gas. The garbage bags provide a clean liner for the pails and keep the loose trash out of the gas so you can reuse it. If you decide to use a siphon, a piece of 1/2" garden hose stuck down the filler neck will siphon all but a gallon or so of the gas.

Remove the filler neck bolts and put them in a zip bag. Disconnect the supply & return lines by removing the plastic clips from the metal tubing. If you damage the clips, you can get new ones form the auto part store for just a few dollars. I have used tie-wraps, but that is not the best choice. Then you remove the two 9/16" nuts that hold the T bolts to the straps. Put the nuts in the zip bag with the filler bolts. Pull the plastic shield down and away from the tank. Once the tank drops a little bit you can disconnect the wiring for the pump & fuel quantity sender.

The fuel gauge sender assembly comes out by removing a large metal ring that unscrews from the tank. There is a separate mounting/access plate for the fuel pump and fuel gage. You are supposed to use a brass punch to tap on the ring so that you don't make sparks. Look closely at the rubber O ring gasket when you remove the fuel gauge sender.
When you install the metal ring that holds the sender in place, watch out for the gasket O ring. Some RTV may be helpful if the ring is not in excellent condition.

The tank to filler pipe seal is a large rubber grommet. Inspect it for hardening, tears and damage. At $20 from the Ford dealer, it might be a good idea to replace it.

I used a floor jack to help lift the tank back in place. You may find that it is the only time you really can make good use of a helper.

All resistance measurements should be made with the power off.

Note from bstrd86 - 86 and older fuel tank sender units are 73 ohms empty, 8-12 ohms full.


The yellow/white wire will show a voltage that varies with the movement of the float on the sender unit. To test the sender, set your Ohmmeter or DVM on low Ohms. Then disconnect the sender and connect the Ohmmeter or DVM to the yellow/white and black wires from the sender unit. Move the float arm while watching the Ohmmeter or DVM. You should see the reading change from 22 to 145 ohms +/- 10%.

If the Ohmmeter or DVM resistance readings are way off, replace the tank sender unit.

Use extreme caution if you do the next step. Fumes from the gas tank can easily ignite and cause a fire or explosion.
With the sender unit out of the tank and connected to the body wiring harness, turn the ignition switch to the Run position. Move the float arm and the fuel gauge indicator should move. If you are very careful, you can use a pair of safety pins inserted in the connector for the yellow/white and black wires to measure the voltage as you move the float arm. The voltage will change, but I have no specs for what it should be.
Do not short the safety pins together or to ground. If you do, you may damage the anti-slosh module or crate a spark. A spark with the fuel tank open could cause a fire or an explosion.

If the voltage does not change and the tanks sender passed the resistance tests, the anti-slosh module or gauge is bad.

Anti-Slosh module pictures courtesy of Saleen0679

 

HiFlow5 0

Member
Oct 29, 2003
68
0
7
East Longmeadow, MA
Jan 15, 2011
#6
  • Jan 15, 2011
  • #6
HISSIN50 said:
Are you sure the guage-end of your fuel level system are up to par? The gauge, its wiring, and Anti-slosh module come to mind.

Did you bench test the sender when you had it out (check for resistance change as the sender moved through it's arc)?
Click to expand...
That's a good call, the infamous slosh module, always seems to poke its head.
 
B

buddy93351

New Member
Jan 9, 2011
10
0
0
ohio
Jan 15, 2011
#7
  • Jan 15, 2011
  • #7
ive run into the same proble only no rear parking/brake lights.ended up i had a small hole in my rocker on the drivers side of my 93 lx. it would let water/snow spray in on the conectors behind the kick pannel.ened up rewireuing all the them because it coroded the wires.wife was driveing home from work and had no tail lights. that might be a thing to look into just to be safe.so u dont get pulled over agin.and may be why ur fuel gauge dont work.cause our was stuck on full aswell.
 
P

project 87 5.0

Member
Feb 22, 2010
32
0
7
sanford, florida
Jan 27, 2011
#8
  • Jan 27, 2011
  • #8
thanks for info, slosh module was culprit. sorry for no replies, i ran in to a bigger issue. had a little oil leak that i was going to fix. found out it was a cracked block near timing cover. so now i did engine swap, still speed density system, it runs Really rich and dont want to idle. i checked all vac lines and intake gaskets all good. thanks.
 
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