Email to FoMoCo...

FLY2kGT · Sep 25, 2006

Here is an email I recently sent to FoMoCo on 09-08-06, I thought I would share the email and their reply which I received on 09-25-06:

SENT:

Questions: I currently own a 2006 Mustang GT and am interested in
purchasing a 2007 GT500. Upon speaking with several different FORD
dealerships around the country, I've discovered that ALL THE DEALERSHIPS
that have a GT500 for sale have given me a price of $59,995 or higher. I
would like to know what the official MSRP is according to FORD MOTOR
COMPANY. I am an avid contributor to many online Mustang websites and have found a large amount of potential buyers that have decided not to buy the GT500 because of the horrific price gouging that is going on by the
dealerships. Many of these people have informed me that they intend to
wait for the upcoming retro Dodge and Chevy products that are to compete
with the GT500 and are due to the hit the market in the near future. I've
always been a loyal Ford Customer, but it pains me to see dealers mark up
new vehicles $20,000 to $30,000. For the common asking price of $60,000 I
can purchase a new Z06 or Porsche Cayman S. While the GT500 is a great
move in the right direction for FORD, the upgrades to make the GT500 from
a Mustang GT can not cost the $35,000 they are asking over what I paid for
my GT. Please let me know what the MSRP is suppose to be and when you
believe that I will be able to purchase your vehicle at or near the MSRP.
Thank you for your time.

REPLY:

Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center inquiring about sales of the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500.

The Sales Department of your local dealership is in the best position to advise you of vehicle pricing or availability. Ford and Lincoln-Mercury dealerships are independently owned and operated and as such, set their own prices for vehicle sales.

In addition, feedback such as yours allows us to examine our practices and policies to ensure that we meet or exceed the expectations of our customers. We have documented your feedback which will be forwarded to the respective departments and dealership involved. We regret that you have not had a favorable experience, but appreciate the time you have taken to write us.

We consider the satisfaction of our customers one of our most important objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.

Sincerely,
Robert
Customer Relationship Center
Ford Motor Company

So, anyone else notice how they left out when I could plan on a purchase near MSRP?

Mr_Q · Sep 25, 2006

You know Nissan Motors actually phoned a bunch of their top tier dealerships before the launch of the 350z in 2003.

Nissan was weary on how price gouging might effect sales. At the time they were just begining their crawl out of near bankruptcy.

They stongly hinted it would be in the dealers best interest NOT to price gouge customers for the new launch that many were excited about.

In the end only a few dealerships here and there whacked people, most kept it at MSRP or a couple of grand over.

I am guessing Ford never made any phone calls.

GottaBeRed · Sep 25, 2006

It wasn't any better when the first GTs were becoming available then suddenly the supply dried up because of the IUP delays. You can see the stream of threads concerning dealer gouging going well back through this forum; so seeing Ford Corporate's official response is disheartening.

I expect we'll see the same, if not worse, for every factory specialty edition that is released with anything more than a tape and graphics package, let alone the GT500.

LuS1fer · Sep 25, 2006

I just don't get how they're allowed to do it. Why don't Ford just auction off the cars and make a profit for once in their lives? Cut off the dealers and see if they whine as loud as an 06 axle.

shooterm1 · Sep 25, 2006

Thank you for contacting the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center inquiring about sales of the Ford Shelby Mustang GT500.

The Sales Department of your local dealership is in the best position to advise you of vehicle pricing or availability. Ford and Lincoln-Mercury dealerships are independently owned and operated and as such, set their own prices for vehicle sales.

In addition, feedback such as yours allows us to examine our practices and policies to ensure that we meet or exceed the expectations of our customers. We have documented your feedback which will be forwarded to the respective departments and dealership involved. We regret that you have not had a favorable experience, but appreciate the time you have taken to write us.

We consider the satisfaction of our customers one of our most important objectives. If you have any other inquiries or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to address them for you.

Ford Motor Company

GottaBeRed said:
It wasn't any better when the first GTs were becoming available ...
I expect we'll see the same, if not worse, for every factory specialty edition that is released with anything more than a tape and graphics package, let alone the GT500.

yep / that sure seems to be their attitude ...

stanmckinney · Sep 25, 2006

It's a certainty that the Shelby GT will suffer the same fate. I would consider one at a reasonable sticker but I won't pay more.
People willing to pay outrageous prices are also to blame. Many bought the GT500 to resell. Look at ebay. Greed and vanity are the problems.

Rock36 · Sep 26, 2006

What bothers me about the reply is that I am pretty damn sure it is just a canned form letter regarding the price of the GT500s. I'm sure they have received many similar letters already and now no longer pay them any attention.

It tells me Ford doesn't really care.

I hope I'm wrong, but that response is completely superficial.

Marine One · Sep 26, 2006

And We Wonder Why FoMoCo Is On The Ropes...

As I see it, you asked a question that deserved a direct answer: The MSRP for the Shelby. Instead of an answer you got four paragraphs worth of BS. It was a simple question, with a simple answer, or at least one would think.

The MSRP and all the other details for that car should have been made available online at Forddirect.com under "2007 Mustang Build and Price"

FoMoCo seems to have forgotten that the Shelby is: a) just a Ford & b) just a Mustang.

Way to go Ford. Way to instill & reinforce repeat customer loyalty.

srothfuss · Sep 26, 2006

The Law prevents Ford from controlling the dealers. [There is a thread about it in GT500 tech] All dealerships are independantly owned and operated and have no real ties to Dearborn other than selling their products. I understand that most people are upset with the current pricing situation for the GT500 but patience is a virtue. The longer you sit on the side lines, the lower the purchase price will be. Another thing that effects pricing is lack of compeition on the market. The Mustang is essentially a monopoly right now since we, as consumers, do not have another alternative in the pony car segment. So just like you hinted at in your original question to Ford, once the Challenger and Camaro hit the streets the dealers will loose most of their pricing power.

I am happy for those that have purchased a GT500. I hold nothing aginst them, but if you really wanted to be smart about buying one just wait until the last year of production. By that time there will be 3 - 10 GT500's sitting on random lots with "1,500 rebate!" "Buy Now!" plastered all over the windshield.

GottaBeRed hit on the issues surrounding the launch of the S197 Mustang GT back in August of 2004. The same things happened but fast forward to today and now most all dealers take X-plan or offer some sort of 'deal' to sell a regular Mustang. I waited it out. It sucked seeing everyone else driving their cars while I waited, but maybe that makes the car better in the end. Here is two things I get as a bennifit from waiting to purchase:

1) Zero or minimal TSB's / Recall's or "first production run issues" GT500 will have some for sure...
2) Improvements: It's common for all car companies to improve on the same basic concepts. Adding small features like heated seats, power passenger seats and soft touch surfaces goes a long way to improve the Mustang's interior feature content - I ordered them all.

And I understand that I am preaching to the choir here so take my post with a grain of salt. Because it just felt good to type out my experience.

Marine One · Sep 26, 2006

srothfuss said:
The Law prevents Ford from controlling the dealers. [There is a thread about it in GT500 tech] All dealerships are independantly owned and operated and have no real ties to Dearborn other than selling their products.

I just re-read FLY2kGT's original posting & e-mail to Ford. All he asked of them was to provide him with the MSRP. I believe that the "M" in MSRP still stands for "Manufacturer's."

He didn't ask for the selling price, or for corporate to intervene to get their dealers in line (which they probably could do if they really cared about customer care instead of just selling cars), or to stiff-arm a dealer into selling him a Shelby at a a reasonable price.

There is no good reason why the weanies at Dearborn couldn't have simply answered his question. They are the manufacturer and accordingly, they set the MSRP.

srothfuss · Sep 26, 2006

You bring up a very good point. Ford's hurting because of their customer service. Not because of their product. People buy from Toyota and Honda because when they have an problem the consumer knows it'll be fixed properly without any run-around and large outputs of money. This is a huge issue that is currently being overlooked by my industry (automotive.) And my post is not intended as a slam to the many honest and hard working technicians and mechanics. Instead it's directed at the bean counters and greedy service managers.

There is a Manufacturers price. It is 42,975 for the Coupe and 47.800 for the convertible. (Click for PDF file) But let's not leave out the 'S' in MSRP... Suggested

This is what my original post tries to answer... You will see MSRP prices (or below) after the fist year of production. So when the 2008 GT500's are available for purchase.

The Fang · Sep 26, 2006

I am curios as to what the dealers actually pay for the cars. It obviouly is somethin less than msrp.

radtexas · Sep 26, 2006

Not sure this is what you were really asking for but this is what Edmunds has.

Convertible MSRP
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/ford/shelbygt500/100751537/prices.html

Coupe MSRP
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2007/ford/shelbygt500/100751535/prices.html

Consumer guide has same prices so they must be official.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/39010/Act/Prices/

srothfuss · Sep 26, 2006

The Fang said:
I am curios as to what the dealers actually pay for the cars. It obviouly is somethin less than msrp.

Dealers purchase a car for "wholesale" pricing from the factories. This price is obviously less than MSRP but I am unsure of how low it really is.

Mike97gt · Sep 26, 2006

srothfuss said:
You bring up a very good point. Ford's hurting because of their customer service. Not because of their product. People buy from Toyota and Honda because when they have an problem the consumer knows it'll be fixed properly without any run-around and large outputs of money. This is a huge issue that is currently being overlooked by my industry (automotive.) And my post is not intended as a slam to the many honest and hard working technicians and mechanics. Instead it's directed at the bean counters and greedy service managers.

There is a Manufacturers price. It is 42,975 for the Coupe and 47.800 for the convertible. (Click for PDF file) But let's not leave out the 'S' in MSRP... Suggested

This is what my original post tries to answer... You will see MSRP prices (or below) after the fist year of production. So when the 2008 GT500's are available for purchase.

While I agree with you that getting your car fixed is a gamble with the help some of these dealers are hiring or due to the fact that warrenty does not pay well enough for us techs to make a living so we blow the stuff out the door unfixed. Toyota and Honda are even worse from what I have seen. They do not provide as much after warrenty help as ford does, I think most of the reason people buy those imports is because they think that toyota and honda are a better quality car, and in some cases they are right.

srothfuss said:
Dealers purchase a car for "wholesale" pricing from the factories. This price is obviously less than MSRP but I am unsure of how low it really is.

depending on the car the dealer cost is about 1,000 under the invoice price. on low profit cars like mustang and focus it might only be about 500 under the invoice price. this is called holdback money.

srothfuss said:
The Law prevents Ford from controlling the dealers. [There is a thread about it in GT500 tech] All dealerships are independantly owned and operated and have no real ties to Dearborn other than selling their products. I understand that most people are upset with the current pricing situation for the GT500 but patience is a virtue. The longer you sit on the side lines, the lower the purchase price will be. Another thing that effects pricing is lack of compeition on the market. The Mustang is essentially a monopoly right now since we, as consumers, do not have another alternative in the pony car segment. So just like you hinted at in your original question to Ford, once the Challenger and Camaro hit the streets the dealers will loose most of their pricing power.

I am happy for those that have purchased a GT500. I hold nothing aginst them, but if you really wanted to be smart about buying one just wait until the last year of production. By that time there will be 3 - 10 GT500's sitting on random lots with "1,500 rebate!" "Buy Now!" plastered all over the windshield.

GottaBeRed hit on the issues surrounding the launch of the S197 Mustang GT back in August of 2004. The same things happened but fast forward to today and now most all dealers take X-plan or offer some sort of 'deal' to sell a regular Mustang. I waited it out. It sucked seeing everyone else driving their cars while I waited, but maybe that makes the car better in the end. Here is two things I get as a bennifit from waiting to purchase:

1) Zero or minimal TSB's / Recall's or "first production run issues" GT500 will have some for sure...
2) Improvements: It's common for all car companies to improve on the same basic concepts. Adding small features like heated seats, power passenger seats and soft touch surfaces goes a long way to improve the Mustang's interior feature content - I ordered them all.

And I understand that I am preaching to the choir here so take my post with a grain of salt. Because it just felt good to type out my experience.

I agree 100 percent here.

I find it funny how people think only the dealer is evil and the manufactuer is all great and good and people want to buy the car directly from them.. Ford sticks it to me everyday, everytime I do a warrenty job Ford is stealing from me. Every damm time I diag a car for free under warrenty Ford is stealing from me. Bill Ford bragged in a magazine article once about how he cut warrenty costs, you want to know how he did that? by cutting the tech pay on warrenty jobs, in some cases they cut them to a fraction of what they were and it got to the point where you spend 6 hours on some warrenty jobs you get paid 3 hours.

This is why you can't get problems fixed

1. they drove all the good techs away over the last few years, all we got left is a handfull of qualified techs in a shop with 15 idiots that should not be allowed to work on cars.

2. The few remaining qualified techs blow warrenty stuff out the door because they are working 50 hour work weeks to produce less hours than they made in 40 hours just 6 years ago. I am sure all of you would do the same if you were working 50 hours and getting paid for 30. Plus to put the cherry on top, the few remaining decent techs get stuck with all the hard stuff while the idiots get all the gravy good paying easy cash work.

Marine One · Sep 26, 2006

srothfuss said:
You bring up a very good point. Ford's hurting because of their customer service. Not because of their product. People buy from Toyota and Honda because when they have an problem the consumer knows it'll be fixed properly without any run-around and large outputs of money. This is a huge issue that is currently being overlooked by my industry (automotive.) And my post is not intended as a slam to the many honest and hard working technicians and mechanics. Instead it's directed at the bean counters and greedy service managers.

There is a Manufacturers price. It is 42,975 for the Coupe and 47.800 for the convertible. (Click for PDF file) But let's not leave out the 'S' in MSRP... Suggested

This is what my original post tries to answer... You will see MSRP prices (or below) after the fist year of production. So when the 2008 GT500's are available for purchase.

I completely agree with you concerning the problem being customer service and not the quality of the product itself. Although this is my third Mustang, it is the first one that I have purchased new . For the longest time I drove nothing but Nissans (Z cars and trucks) for exactly the reasons you cite. I shied away from American cars in the late 70s when the 78 Trans-Am that I puchased new began to self-destruct at the 50,000 mile mark. I replaced it with a 78 280-Z that lasted forever and was ultimately replaced with a 300 ZX Turbo. When I needed a truck I bought a used Datsun that I ultimately replaced with a new Nixxan 4X4. My experience with Nissan dealers is that whatever hassles the buyer might experience in the showroom during the purchase process are more than made up for in the long-run at the service desk. The dealer replaced the two front tires on my 4X4 when it was determined that the front end was out of alignment from the factory and that was what caused the premature wear. I had gone in expecting a fight when I picked up the truck after the alignment was done and before I could even ask, the ticket writer said, "we've ordered two new tires for you under warranty." When the dealer service manager called to say that the tires were in he also told me not to rush down to get them installed because I was currently riding on free tires!!! The same dealer also good-will replaced the dash pad on my 300ZX out of warranty because of a bump that it was growing underneath the vinyl outer coating. They had the car for a week and it was something like 30 hours of labor to remove the dash, transfer all of the components from the old dash to the new and then reinstall the dash. Didn't cost me a dime. They also good will replaced an underdash computer module. They got the district to buy the part with the understanding that I pay the labor, wich came to less that fifty bucks.

So far, my after the sale impression of my Ford dealership has been one of "you've got your car, we've got your money, now get the hell out!" Interstingly, the Ford dealership is literally around the corner from the Nissan store that took such good care of me that I've described above.

FLY2kGT · Sep 26, 2006

Someone mentioned that the law prevents the manufacturer from "controlling the dealers". Can anyone show me this "law" in writing? A perfect case of price control is Apple's IPOD...they set the price and there is no variance in it (Just ask anyone at Best Buy or an Apple store). Even if there is some sort of "law", there is an easy way around it. Ford could easily track the purchase price of it's products and could simply not provide specific inventory to those dealers that choose to price gouge customers. With all of the problems Ford is having, you would think customer service and bulk sales would be first on their list of things to do, but apparently it's not. I realized there is a free market in America and supply and demand have a lot to do with it, but there has to be a cut off somewhere. Everyone says wait and you'll be able to get one for msrp...well, the reason I want one now is because it's the latest greatest thing. If I wait, there will be something else new out there that I might be interested in and then I'll be in the same boat again...waiting for normal pricing. My GT might be my last American vehicle, as I'm seriously considering switching to foreign performance vehicles...I've never seen a crazy mark up on those.

shooterm1 · Sep 26, 2006

FLY2kGT said:
A perfect case of price control is Apple's IPOD...they set the price and there is no variance in it (Just ask anyone at Best Buy or an Apple store).

An even better example are these SCT/X-cal units .......

TALK ABOUT PRICE FIXING!!!!

APowers · Sep 27, 2006

Law

FLY2kGT said:
Someone mentioned that the law prevents the manufacturer from "controlling the dealers". Can anyone show me this "law" in writing? A perfect case of price control is Apple's IPOD...they set the price and there is no variance in it (Just ask anyone at Best Buy or an Apple store). Even if there is some sort of "law", there is an easy way around it. Ford could easily track the purchase price of it's products and could simply not provide specific inventory to those dealers that choose to price gouge customers. With all of the problems Ford is having, you would think customer service and bulk sales would be first on their list of things to do, but apparently it's not. I realized there is a free market in America and supply and demand have a lot to do with it, but there has to be a cut off somewhere. Everyone says wait and you'll be able to get one for msrp...well, the reason I want one now is because it's the latest greatest thing. If I wait, there will be something else new out there that I might be interested in and then I'll be in the same boat again...waiting for normal pricing. My GT might be my last American vehicle, as I'm seriously considering switching to foreign performance vehicles...I've never seen a crazy mark up on those.

There is no law or presidence on this issue. The way I understand it Ford is a wholesale supplier to the dealerships that are operated like a franchise. There are certian incentives for sales numbers, models, ect. that generate bonuses to the dealerships. Dont take this as absolute, I practice engineering and labor law, so I am no expert.

FNG 2001 · Sep 27, 2006

srothfuss said:
Dealers purchase a car for "wholesale" pricing from the factories. This price is obviously less than MSRP but I am unsure of how low it really is.

We'll just have to make Stangnet a dealership then so all of it's members can get mustangs for less than MSRP. Who's with me?:SNSign:

Email to FoMoCo...

FLY2kGT

Mr_Q

GottaBeRed

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LuS1fer

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