Engine build. $7000 budget. What would you do?

wythors · Apr 12, 2012

Next winter my LX is going to get a new powerplant. This is something I've never done before, so I'm looking for educated opinions. These are my basic parameters:

Small b-based.
Fuel injected.
Aftermarket block (leaning towards Boss).
Naturally aspirated.
Lotsa torque.
Strictly street use. No racing.
Reliable.

My current setup is in my signature and makes about 275 to the rear wheels. I'd like to pick up another 100 hp +/-.

Discuss.

Bullitt347 · Apr 12, 2012

Dart block, AFR heads (205), stroker kit (363 or so) camshaft would be hyd roller, high lift (.620ish) short duration (under 235* @ .050) on a 114 LSA. TFS or Eddy Victor Jr. intake and around 10.5:1 compression. This is the "starting point"............at least for me
Since I can do a lot of the work myself, I would have more $ to play with

95Vert383AOD · Apr 12, 2012

$7000? I would build anything between a 351-408. 351 Blocks make awesome high power Daily drivers. You can easily make 500+ on a Stock block. You can also easily reach your HP goals at compression levels that will let you use Reg pump gas.

LarsD · Apr 12, 2012

Don't think you can do an aftermarket block for under $7K unless you do a bunch of the assembly yourself and scrounge for second hand parts. Is this $7K ceiling for just the long block? Or does that number include all the external parts as well (IE, injectors, headers, clutch, flywheel, etc)?

I spent almost your budget on my boring little stock block 347 long block.

95Vert383AOD · Apr 12, 2012

Oh yeah He wants an aftermarket block (forgot).....Well if he went with a 351 he wouldn't need one. Unless he wanted a street 800+ hp car.

wythors · Apr 12, 2012

95Vert383AOD said:
$7000? I would build anything between a 351-408.

Fail. The first criteria is that I want it small-block based.

wythors · Apr 12, 2012

LarsD said:
Don't think you can do an aftermarket block for under $7K unless you do a bunch of the assembly yourself and scrounge for second hand parts. Is this $7K ceiling for just the long block? Or does that number include all the external parts as well (IE, injectors, headers, clutch, flywheel, etc)?

I spent almost your budget on my boring little stock block 347 long block.

This is my preliminary budget for the long block.

Boosted92LX · Apr 12, 2012

That's an awful lot of money to spend to reach only 375 rwhp. I see your parameters you've set, but you could save a lot of money by just adjusting the naturally aspirted one...

Bang for the buck is boost. Plain and simple.

I wouldn't push this so hard if I hadn't spent the last six months studying it myself.

Boosted92LX · Apr 12, 2012

wythors said:
Fail. The first criteria is that I want it small-block based.

Ummm, go back and read that again...

95Vert383AOD · Apr 12, 2012

LOL a 351 is a "Small Block".....With a taller deck. Oh and 1/2" head bolts and a thicker Crank.

wythors · Apr 12, 2012

95Vert383AOD said:
LOL a 351 is a "Small Block".....With a taller deck. Oh and 1/2" head bolts and a thicker Crank.

To me, "small block" is 302-based. 351 is a Windsor.

Boosted92LX · Apr 13, 2012

wythors said:
To me, "small block" is 302-based. 351 is a Windsor.

According to Ford...302 and 351 are BOTH Windsor motors, and both small block.

LarsD · Apr 13, 2012

wythors said:
This is my preliminary budget for the long block.

OK, so that's a little better then. You could do better then 375hp though for $7K I think if you plan carefully.

95Vert383AOD · Apr 13, 2012

To Ford and your average Engine rebuilding book a Small Block Ford (SBF) is a 289/302/351. They share everything Excluding lower intake, Oil pan and Distributor.

But if you only want 100hp. more just get a Kenne Bell or some other blower on your existing setup and save the rest. A 375hp goal doesn't warrant the Thousands spent on a aftermarket block and machining. (as said before)

Gearbanger 101 · Apr 13, 2012

Skip the aftermarket block. The stock block will take well in excess of your 375hp goal. Heck...it'll handle 475hp if you aren’t pushing the power adders.

IMO...keep it simple. 331-347c, a good set of aluminum heads and intake and a little boost. That'll get you well into the 425-450rwhp range. Heck...you could probably hit your 375rwhp goal pretty easily now with your stock short block, a Trick Flow top end and an S-Trim tuned very, very conservatively and still have money left over.

Doing it on motor is cool, but at $4+ per gallon, I'd do it with boost. That way, when you're not hard on the throttle, it'll retain it's stock mileage and only use the fuel it needs, when you're on the loud pedal. Lumpy cammed, big headed all motor combos, are sucking back the dino juice, all of the time.

NIKwoaC · Apr 13, 2012

Bullitt347 said:
Dart block, AFR heads (205), stroker kit (363 or so) camshaft would be hyd roller, high lift (.620ish) short duration (under 235* @ .050) on a 114 LSA. TFS or Eddy Victor Jr. intake and around 10.5:1 compression. This is the "starting point"............at least for me
Since I can do a lot of the work myself, I would have more $ to play with

This! Only I'll add a few things to consider:

1. Twisted Wedge 205s, because I'm partial to T-dubbs and they outflow the AFRs anyway. Have TEA build them with a nice valvetrain (see below).
2. +1 on the high lift, short duration cam. Talk to Bullet or FTI (Ed Curtis) or Rick. Time it so you can make sure the valvetrain matches the cam.
3. Carb-style single plane intake with an elbow and 90mm TB, port matched to the heads. TEA will do this, too.
4. No less than 363 on a DART block. From what I have heard, I would not waste money on the Boss block. Apparently their short cylinder walls DO cause problems, regardless of what their marketing says.
5. ~9.5:1 Compression so you can boost it in the future when you feel the need.

Boosted92LX · Apr 13, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
1. Twisted Wedge 205s, because I'm partial to T-dubbs and they outflow the AFRs anyway.

I've yet to see any really hard evidence of this. I read a dozen different theories, and a dozen different conflictiong comparisons, but to be fair, I'd say they're pretty close if not equal.
I AM completely unbiased, I own neither product. I can add that Trick Flow does offer a host of matched accessory parts not available from AFR, making them more attractive to the lay consumer. But as for outflowing AFR, I'm going to call B.S.

srtthis · Apr 13, 2012

wythors said:
To me, "small block" is 302-based. 351 is a Windsor.

well your wrong...

NIKwoaC said:
This! Only I'll add a few things to consider:

1. Twisted Wedge 205s, because I'm partial to T-dubbs and they outflow the AFRs anyway. Have TEA build them with a nice valvetrain (see below).
2. +1 on the high lift, short duration cam. Talk to Bullet or FTI (Ed Curtis) or Rick. Time it so you can make sure the valvetrain matches the cam.
3. Carb-style single plane intake with an elbow and 90mm TB, port matched to the heads. TEA will do this, too.
4. No less than 363 on a DART block. From what I have heard, I would not waste money on the Boss block. Apparently their short cylinder walls DO cause problems, regardless of what their marketing says.
5. ~9.5:1 Compression so you can boost it in the future when you feel the need.

thats should be MORE then enough to do it!

CarMichael Angelo · Apr 13, 2012

A stroked, stock 5.0 block w/ good heads and the requisite cam will make the power goal so easy that you'll be able to pocket about half of your budget. Who here doesn't have a 331/347 that isn't making that power N/A?
I don't know you Dave, but you seem to be someone more interested in driving it, rather than paying Chevron an extra .30 to .50 a gallon for the premium gas required to support a higher cylinder pressure so you can do the same.
Bigger engines (i.e a 351 based build) can get by w/ lower compression, (read, 87 octane reg) as the additional stroke of a 408 will make the torque that makes it fun to drive it. As stated above a 351 block will support loftier HP goals, and it fits your engine compartment.
All existing accessories should bolt up.

Noobz347 · Apr 13, 2012

wythors said:
Next winter my LX is going to get a new powerplant. This is something I've never done before, so I'm looking for educated opinions. These are my basic parameters:

Small b-based.
Fuel injected.
Aftermarket block (leaning towards Boss).
Naturally aspirated.
Lotsa torque.
Strictly street use. No racing.
Reliable.

My current setup is in my signature and makes about 275 to the rear wheels. I'd like to pick up another 100 hp +/-.

Discuss.

Following order above:

I like the 363 idea mentioned above
Ok
Dart Sportsman
Ok (until later when you want more. You can always add boost if you get the mind to)

Either 205 or 225CC heads coupled with a Holley Intake (they don't have to be TFS or AFR if you're looking to save a little $$) 90mm maf (Lightning) and 80 mm TB (Accufab) Anderson Power Pipe 42s and tune and finally... a nasty cam that has good manners

3:73 gears/TKO/hardened axles/rear end girdle/5 lug conversion
Blinkers and tail lights
Forged internals (hyper pistons 10:1 if you're 1000% sure that you'll never boost it) and a 150 wet-shot for the days you get a wild hair.

Engine build. $7000 budget. What would you do?

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

Bullitt347

I have been doing it wrong this whole time

95Vert383AOD

LarsD

95Vert383AOD

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

95Vert383AOD

wythors

Get off my lawn!!!

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

LarsD

95Vert383AOD

Gearbanger 101

Straight Outta Locash

NIKwoaC

中國製造

Boosted92LX

It's only an inch or two. What's the big deal?

srtthis

the guy doing it does every local racers rear end

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor

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