I agree for the most part with everything you said except this. You feel acceleration, which is related to HP, not torque.BornInAFord said:
snip. You feel torque, snip
Daniel
We're probably thinking the same thing but partially saying it differently.SoCalCruising said:Hack: my point was that is you model the engine for a certain hp, but limit the torque, then you may be forced to make the hp at high RPMs. Then I said that is costly. I didn't argue with your premise, only the cost of that premiss when not planning for enough torque, or enough at low/mid RPMs. You switched the argument to ave. hp in your desired RPM band, which is a better measure.
I have a diesel, too. I know about high-torque, low RPM motors and speed. My case is the cost of making the hp at very high RPMs.
Ok, your definitions at the outset are correct. So you want the work of accelerating your car to be done quickly - meaning you want HP. I don't understand why you keep talking about torque. Torque says, "yes I will be able to make it through the quarter mile." HP says, "this is how quickly I will get through."bnickel said:torque=amount of work being done
HP= how fast the work is getting done
you can't have one without the other...PERIOD.
for a street engine the work needs to be performed at lower RPMs, below about 5-6k RPM and the torque curve needs to be fattest about in the middle of that range with peak torque occurring about in upper third of that range.
an engine that makes all of it's power higher than 6K is not a street motor and will not produce good driveability on the street no matter what you do to it.
torque is king on the street as long as hp is able to keep the engine in the appropriate RPM range of the torque peak.
Hack said:Ok, your definitions at the outset are correct. So you want the work of accelerating your car to be done quickly - meaning you want HP. I don't understand why you keep talking about torque. Torque says, "yes I will be able to make it through the quarter mile." HP says, "this is how quickly I will get through."
I agree 100% that you want the engine to function between 2k and 6k rpms for street driving. A good build for the street maximizes the average horsepower in that range.
You haven't said this in the post I quoted, but some people seem to think that torque gets you going and HP takes over. That is not true. HP is what accelerates a car. The more HP the faster the car accelerates.
bnickel said:wrong, torque is what moves the car and get's it moving, HP only determines how quickly that torque moves the car. if a car has 500 hp and only 300 lb/ft of torque it's not going to move the car very well, conversely if a car has 300 hp and 500 lb/ft of torque it will move out very nicely. there is a reason why the Buick GS 455 was the muscle car it was...510 lb/ft torque even though it only had 360hp. the 428CJ was the same way as was the 426 hemi.
on the street TORQUE is KING.
Foxfan88 said:but wouldnt the 500 hp and 300 tq engine smooth out in the upper rpms??
stangman67 said:I guess this could be a tech question, but sort of talk.
What would result in a more fun street car:
flat tq curve around 450 with 350hp
or
flat tq curve around 450 with 500hp
bnickel said:wrong, torque is what moves the car and get's it moving, HP only determines how quickly that torque moves the car. if a car has 500 hp and only 300 lb/ft of torque it's not going to move the car very well, conversely if a car has 300 hp and 500 lb/ft of torque it will move out very nicely. there is a reason why the Buick GS 455 was the muscle car it was...510 lb/ft torque even though it only had 360hp. the 428CJ was the same way as was the 426 hemi.
on the street TORQUE is KING.
Just because your car dynoed with a torque number that's higher than the HP number at a certain rpm doesn't change the physical laws of the universe and make torque responsible for the quickness of your car in the quarter mile. You are probably making a lot of HP at lower RPM than most people which makes it more usable on the street, though. Similar to having a big block but without all the weight.10secgoal said:Didn't we already have some huge thread about this ? My car has always dynoed low. 275hp and 363trq to the rear. But it ran 12.1's all day. My sig is just me being a smart ass to people building 500 8k spinning "street cars." Torque is a blast. Spinning the tires while you are already moving at 65 mph is kinda fun.
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