Engine Engine noise diagnosis (with video)

Justin87 · Sep 5, 2022

Hello all,

I have a question about a fun new sound my fox started making today.

Background: 3 years ago a long time family friend sold me a DSS 306 long block and PA Performance C4 for a crazy low price. They were for one of his half dozen foxbody projects but he and his family moved out of state. They were brand new, never installed, still wrapped in plastic with all the paperwork and invoices.

Last spring, I installed the drivetrain into my 90GT and honestly, the thing has been running GREAT!

Once I got the timing and idle set correctly and installed my hammer shifter, I have just been driving the car and following the break-in process form DSS. Since the spring of last year I have put roughly 250 miles on the car. Babying it the whole time per the instructions.

Last week Wednesday (my day off) I drove about 45 miles in the fox running errands and what not. I parked it, put the battery tender on it, and hadn’t touched it till today.

Today I started the car and it immediately was making a pretty serious chattering / ticking sound. Could be a loose rocker, could be a sticky lifter, could be rod knock, I don’t really know. (See videos)

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/YS7Jt3iPhq8?feature=share

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/5Ys2tiskf90?feature=share

My questions are:

1. What does it sound like you ya’ll?
2. How do I confirm/test?
3. Any thoughts on why it would happen now vs right at first start up last spring?

I can provide more information if needed.

Any input is welcome. Thanks

-Justin

General karthief · Sep 5, 2022

Pull the valve covers, sounds like a rocker arm to me, might as well start at the top

Justin87 · Sep 5, 2022

General karthief said:
Pull the valve covers, sounds like a rocker arm to me, might as well start at the top

Good call. Like maybe it just came lose?

Pinellas50 · Sep 6, 2022

Also check your header bolts. It sounds like only 1 cylinder has an issue.

General karthief · Sep 6, 2022

Well, without the X-ray vision accessory on my kindle (what can I say I'm cheap) I can't tell, could be a broken \ bent push rod, collapsed lifter, wiped out cam lobe. Just have to start somewhere.
I once had a friend sneek up behind my car and started tapping on the tail pipe, I was convinced for a second I had a problem.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

Pinellas50 said:
Also check your header bolts. It sounds like only 1 cylinder has an issue.

Thanks for the response! I did check my header bolts and plugs last night. I was hoping for an exhaust leak at first.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

General karthief said:
Well, without the X-ray vision accessory on my kindle (what can I say I'm cheap) I can't tell, could be a broken \ bent push rod, collapsed lifter, wiped out cam lobe. Just have to start somewhere.
I once had a friend sneek up behind my car and started tapping on the tail pipe, I was convinced for a second I had a problem.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Was just speculating along with ya.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

Update (with videos)

Hey all,

I’m fortunate enough that I get to work from home, so during my lunch break, I went out to the garage and pulled the intake and valve covers.

Nothing was glaringly wrong (from what I could see) however I did notice most of the roller rockers have side-to-side play on both side of the engine. Except those that are currently depressing valves. (See videos)

Driver Side:

View: https://youtu.be/r_sM7dMKVp0

Passenger Side:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/53bgytM5JqQ?feature=share

Should the rockers have that much play in them?

Should they have no play?

If this could be the problem, what’s the proper way to correct?

Thanks for your time and tribal knowledge.

-Justin

(FYI, this is a hydraulic roller car with Zinc additive per instructions from DSS.)

Monkeybutt2000 · Sep 6, 2022

Completely normal for rockers to have side movement. While your there,you might as well go through the valve adjustment sequence to ensure proper preload.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

Monkeybutt2000 said:
Completely normal for rockers to have side movement. While your there,you might as well go through the valve adjustment sequence to ensure proper preload.

Damn. So this is not likely the cause of my sound then eh?

Monkeybutt2000 · Sep 6, 2022

Justin87 said:
Damn. So this is not likely the cause of my sound then eh?

It's hard to diagnose a sound from a video. But IMO,no it's not.

Monkeybutt2000 · Sep 6, 2022

And just because you didn't have loose header bolts,doesn't mean a gasket didn't blow.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

Monkeybutt2000 said:
And just because you didn't have loose header bolts,doesn't mean a gasket didn't blow.

That’s a good point. I have not felt any escaping gases, but I’ll check again.

Justin87 · Sep 6, 2022

Monkeybutt2000 said:
Completely normal for rockers to have side movement. While your there,you might as well go through the valve adjustment sequence to ensure proper preload.

Apologies for asking what is probably a stupid question but I want to be clear:

You are saying lateral (side-to-side) moment is normal, but I should not be able to wiggle the rocker up and down?

Even with the motor off and theoretically no pressure running through the lifter?

The reason I ask (other than just wanting to eliminate this area as the problem) is:

1. A couple of them I can move up and down, but I haven’t set the position of the motor yet, so I don’t know if that’s just natural.

2. These rockers were installed by DSS, who I’m sure know better than me, so before I go messing with something I just wanted to ask.

Video of the movement:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/4wyQHKBNVKc?feature=share

Two of them in this clip I can push up slightly and get the roller off the cable. Just want to make sure I know why you are talking about

rednotch · Sep 7, 2022

Some lateral movement is normal...... But you need to check lash with the valves closed.... Spin the push rods with your fingers on all the closed valves, there should be no up and down free play In the push rod and slight resistance to spinning the push rods, cylinder 8 looks on the lose side from the last video. You can prime the oil system if you want but its not needed., set lash only when that valve is closed fully on the base ciricle.of the cam, bump the motor over until the open valves close, rinse / repeat. Check your vale covers for any witness marks, any rockers with up and down movement I would remove and check the under sides for witness marks. Plenty of YouTube videos on lash settings on stud mount rockers on a hydraulic roller if your not familiar with it, I'd relash them all since its all ready apart..

General karthief · Sep 7, 2022

Check the tech \ how to thread in the fox tech forum for 'stuff'
Here it is: https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-fo...-other-stud-pedestal-mount-roller-rockers.28/

Justin87 · Sep 7, 2022

rednotch said:
Some lateral movement is normal...... But you need to check lash with the valves closed.... Spin the push rods with your fingers on all the closed valves, there should be no up and down free play In the push rod and slight resistance to spinning the push rods, cylinder 8 looks on the lose side from the last video. You can prime the oil system if you want but its not needed., set lash only when that valve is closed fully on the base ciricle.of the cam, bump the motor over until the open valves close, rinse / repeat. Check your vale covers for any witness marks, any rockers with up and down movement I would remove and check the under sides for witness marks. Plenty of YouTube videos on lash settings on stud mount rockers on a hydraulic roller if your not familiar with it, I'd relash them all since its all ready apart..

Thanks for your input! I’ll start with relashing them all today before putting it back together. Definitely seems like the most logical thing to start with before moving on to another area that could be making the sound.

Thank you again!

Justin87 · Sep 7, 2022

Hey guys;

Just wanted to say thanks for the help on this issue. I adjusted the lash on all the rocker arms today, and two of them I could loosen the polylock with my fingers.

Obviously there could be other issues, perhaps a sticky lifter or something, but this was obviously at least part of the problem.

Videos of engine, right after first start:

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/gDWaJjAMxVM?feature=share

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/Y9EUS6poBMs?feature=share

bchampion · Sep 10, 2022

My new 408 from Blueprint is making that same sound as yours. Hopefully this is my issues too.

Justin87 · Sep 10, 2022

bchampion said:
My new 408 from Blueprint is making that same sound as yours. Hopefully this is my issues too.

My motor was built by DSS Racing, and I was looking through the paperwork that came with it last night and it does say something to the affect of:

“Periodic adjustment of valve train components may be necessary as engine goes through break-in period”

I’m only about 200+ Miles into the break in period so depending on where you are at, perhaps it will be!

Engine Engine noise diagnosis (with video)

Justin87

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Justin87

Pinellas50

Active Member

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Justin87

Justin87

Justin87

Monkeybutt2000

Mustang Master

Justin87

Monkeybutt2000

Mustang Master

Monkeybutt2000

Mustang Master

Justin87

Justin87

rednotch

I'd like to remain having one chocolate starfish

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Justin87

Justin87

bchampion

Member

Justin87

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wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

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