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Engine question (having someone build me one...making sure he isnt feeding me B.S)

  • Thread starter Thread starter 95CobraStang
  • Start date Start date Dec 1, 2006
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joncash

just high enough to be functional
Founding Member
Dec 9, 2000
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The USA's peen
Dec 6, 2006
#61
  • Dec 6, 2006
  • #61
Some of these guys will shoot me down when I get to the heads but I've seen this work quite nicely on a couple of EFI'ed Foxes:

Consider a Ford Racing 6009-c347 short block (sportsman block w/ ARP studs, forged internals including crankshaft) $2995-$3095 depending on where you get it.

A decent hydraulic roller cam. I personally don't think custom is necessary for an engine as popular as a roller-block 5.0 and working at this power level. Either way, you can do a little better than an E-cam. The Crower 15513 (http://www.crower.com/misc/m_cat.shtml) would idle decently in a 347 on the street, but has a damn cool sound. The important thing is that you run a dual pattern cam, meaning you have a little more lift and duration on the exhaust side, and shy away from cams that have a lobe seperation of less than 112*--less overlap means a numerically higher number. Less overlap helps blowers make pressure in the cylinder and also helps idle quality, also the EEC-IV computer will be happier.

If you want to go supercharged, consider the 70cc Victor Jr.s from Edelbrock. Yes, they're a big head and, yes, they're a "semi-race" (whatever that means) head...BUT they work really well w/ the above combination and will keep the compression down to just over 9:1with the 347's flat-tops. The rub is, you'll have to have them assembled by a decent shop because they are not available from Edelbrock complete. You'll have a few hundred dollars invested in your heads more than otherwise, but overall you can get this combo together for a hell of a lot less than some of those quotes you're getting locally.

I like the Kenne Bell setups, it's got a nice underhood cool factor. You'll have a ton of torque and the car wil impress everyone. The problem is, you'll have a ton of torque. Coupled w/ a healthy 347, you'll have no traction and that can get a little frustrating when you just want a nice launch. When you build up the suspension and get it to hook w/ sticky tires, you'll break stuff. It's been said already, but I agree, why not just supercharge a 302? If you really wanted to supercharge a 347, I'd use a Paxton or Vortech for a good top end charge to go w/ the nice bottom end grunt the engine will already have.
 

95CobraStang

Member
Jan 21, 2004
281
1
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Chico, CA
Dec 6, 2006
#62
  • Dec 6, 2006
  • #62
Thanks for that well-thought-out reply! After listening to many opinions, coupled with the fact that I want manageable power along with a SC'd engine, there will be no 347 or 331 for sure. It just doesn't seem like the right choice for my particular application.

So with that said, I contacted DSS and have a pretty bad a$$ combo pieced together. BTW- they are great to talk to and really listen to what YOU are looking for.

Here is an overview:

Super bullitt 306
Twisted wedge hi lift
comp cams blower cam
I believe 1.6 rrs
main support
etc etc etc (sorry- im not around the list, so I'm going off memory)

and importantly- GT40 lower intake to match up to a Kenne Bell Blowzilla (they have a stock setup and GT40)..ill e running a serpentine setup

The cam pulls from 2000-6000 and should be flat-out awesome with the KB. I'll couple it with a 2400-2600 stall and it will be pretty optimal. FYI- I'm running EFI and an AOD.

I can't wait! and to settle any worries- I'll be safe if the suspension isnt right...it will be upgraded as needed.

Thx for all advice. I feel that this is well-researched and I'm ready to go.
 

BullittStangV8

Founding Member
Oct 5, 2002
1,104
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36
NJ
Dec 7, 2006
#63
  • Dec 7, 2006
  • #63
I liked my talk with DSS as well when I ordered from them. I went with their pro bullitt. Why didnt you go with the AFR 205's?
 

95CobraStang

Member
Jan 21, 2004
281
1
18
Chico, CA
Dec 7, 2006
#64
  • Dec 7, 2006
  • #64
I believe they are a little large for my particular application. However, I will get a definite answer tomorrow. Also an answer on why Trick Flow instead of AFR 185s as I hear nothing but great stuff about AFR.
 

allcarfan

The Answer Man
Founding Member
Apr 8, 2001
2,458
1
56
North Atlanta
Dec 7, 2006
#65
  • Dec 7, 2006
  • #65
i think 205s would be a little big too.

205s, stroker, + super charger = 650rwhp = no fun on street
 

joncash

just high enough to be functional
Founding Member
Dec 9, 2000
756
4
39
The USA's peen
Dec 7, 2006
#66
  • Dec 7, 2006
  • #66
Glad we at least helped you gifure out what you didn't want !

As an owner of a set of AFR 165's I have nothing but good stuff to say about them. The only reason i didn't use the 185's in my 302 was the Speed Pro pistons I used wouldn't take a 2.02" valve and I got nervous about flycutting. That said, they're my absolute favorite heads after working at an almost all-Ford hot rod shop for a few years too many. I like Edelbrocks and some others, but for the love of God, don't use TFS heads.

There, I said it. I'm not writing a disclaimer to anyone who has TFS heads because they are absolute crap. The castings are poor quality, the valve guides are lousy, they don't flow all that great for what they're supposed to do, and just about any other head on the market will outlast them in terms of durability. Their only advantage is running a big valve w/ a stock piston and that goes out the window when you're using an aftermarket piston anyway. The only shops that reccomend them are the places that make a good profit off them like Summit and whoever else. Don't believe the hype.

Okay, I feel better.



This rant has been brought to you by Miller High Life: The Champagne of Beers
 

95CobraStang

Member
Jan 21, 2004
281
1
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Chico, CA
Dec 8, 2006
#67
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #67
Sometimes we need the buzzed truth...it's often the most truthful time!! (sometimes too much when talking to the ladies...embarassing next days)

It looks like the order will be placed tomorrow. I went ahead and called CHP as well and they are writing me something up. I told them I wanted AFR 185s. I'll talk to them and DSS. I'll take your opinion serious because I have heard bad things about their castings as well...

ill update early tomorrow
 
D

D.Hearne

New Member
Sep 29, 2000
11,730
6
0
south louisiana
Dec 8, 2006
#68
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #68
Don't forget Canfield's. These are what I have on my 331. Great heads.
 

Edbert

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2002
3,548
32
109
Austin TX
Dec 8, 2006
#69
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #69
Cannoball888 said:
What's a cheap way to strengthen it? Valley girdle?
Click to expand...

Get an aftermarket block (like World or even FRPP) BEFORE you go too high-dollar on the internals.

What car is this going into, your 95? If it is for a classic I'd suggest leaving the 347behind in favor of a 351W. Price should be very close since you're buying a block anyhow.

At least that will solve the weak-block issue for you


Edit to add: I bought a DSS Pro-Bullet-357, and concurr with all the good things said about that company!
 

Edbert

Founding Member
Jul 13, 2002
3,548
32
109
Austin TX
Dec 8, 2006
#70
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #70
joncash said:
I'm not writing a disclaimer to anyone who has TFS heads because they are absolute crap. The castings are poor quality, the valve guides are lousy, they don't flow all that great for what they're supposed to do, and just about any other head on the market will outlast them in terms of durability. Their only advantage is running a big valve w/ a stock piston and that goes out the window when you're using an aftermarket piston anyway. The only shops that reccomend them are the places that make a good profit off them like Summit and whoever else. Don't believe the hype.
Click to expand...
My engine builder said the same thing...design/concept is good, execution/quality is abysmal.
 
S

Sicarius428

Active Member
Jan 6, 2004
2,085
5
49
Dec 8, 2006
#71
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #71
I suggest talking to Rick91gt(member on the forum here). He has a shop www.rnhperformance.com . His workmanship is top notch and his prices are very competitive with any of the other bigger assembly line builders. It might be worth giving him a call. He spends most of his time in the 5.0 area but if you post a thread about him, you will definately get a lot of great feedback about his works. When it comes time for my motor I will have him do the work because I have heard too many issues with DSS and CHP... Keith Kraft is also a really good builder but out of my price range for what I need.
Kevin
 

95CobraStang

Member
Jan 21, 2004
281
1
18
Chico, CA
Dec 8, 2006
#72
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #72
I may do that...

BTW- I am set for AFR 185s instead... too many good reviews to pass on.
 
S

Sicarius428

Active Member
Jan 6, 2004
2,085
5
49
Dec 8, 2006
#73
  • Dec 8, 2006
  • #73
Out of the box I was pleased with my TFS heads. I do know that the earlier ones were pretty poor but I got mine a couple years ago and are really pleased with them thus far.
Kevin
 

95CobraStang

Member
Jan 21, 2004
281
1
18
Chico, CA
Dec 13, 2006
#74
  • Dec 13, 2006
  • #74
The final decision:

I decided to go with the Pro Bullett 306 from DSS. They were great to deal with and I feel that they understood EXACTLY what I was looking for and gave me just that. Plus I got them to throw in a windage tray for free... hey- anything helps

So here is the set up-

- 306 block all prepped and what not
- forged i beam rods
- forged pro-x pistons
- AFR 185s
- upgraded springs to be safe...cam not too crazy, but with the supercharger and all, we figured it was a good idea
- Comp Cams 284 HR blower cam (i wanted it to be streetable, but not be mistaken for a stock idle... this should strike a nice balance)
- 50oz SFI balancer
- 50 oz SFI flexplate
- Canton 7qt oil pan
- Pro 5.0 windage tray
- Serpentine water pump
- Pro billet distributor for a 1986-1993 5.0
- GT40 lower for the KB
- Valve covers...etc

Summary of my plans:
I will be running a Ford EFI system with an Aeromotive inline pump, fuel rails, and AFPR. I havent decided on injector sizes, Mass air, throttle body because I want to talk to Kenne Bell about it. Which brings me to the next item- a Kenne Bell S/C @ 8# or so. I will run the '86-'93 serpentine belt setup as well. The power will be sent through a PA AOD that I still need to purchase.

I can't wait! It's been ordered and is being put together. I'll defintely have a video of it when i get it going!
 
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