Engine questions (I need a new one)

Hey everyone,

Looking for advice and answers to some questions I have on replacing my 289 (has a minor self-induced cracked block):

• I know there are different types of blocks I've read about on different threads (talking about the 302 specifically), be it a Boss block - Sportsman - Dart - etc. So what exactly is a roller block? I've been looking around quite a bit and have seen this listed a lot. And if someone wants to really make my day, what are the different targeted applications of these types of blocks? As an example, I think the Sportsman is a basic upgrade from a standard OEM, correct? A Dart is again the same made by a third party vendor?
• I know there are many things that go into an engine that will determine streetability, including personal preference. Other than going with a dual plane intake over a single and the aggressiveness of your cam choice, is there anything that can make an engine un-streetable? Can one assume if a 331 is making > 400 HP it is going to be a rough setup?
• How about the difference in a flat top versus a domed piston? Does the dome just increase compression? Also, I understand the difference between forged components and cast, but what is a Hyperuetectic piston?
• At what compression do you loose the ability to use pump gas?

My intent is to purchase a streetable long block that is a good upgrade at the same time. I want to stay with a 302 so that the combo will be a direct bolt on replacement to the 289.

• In addition to the above questions, other than the added expense are there any major cons to a stroker over the 302 (such as the 331)?

My current drive line isn't going to handle much more than my current setup (see my signature for the engine combo), it's got a 4sp toploader and an 8 inch 2.79. I'm not concerned with trashing the tranny or the 8 inch given I was going to replace them soon anyway (I would like to keep the 8 inch but throw in a new pumpkin). In a nut shell, I want the quintessential weekend muscle car with street manners.

Hope this wasn't too many questions all at once. Many thanks for your feedback,

Scott

OK, thanks guys. And D.Hearne, you can have the toploader when I'm done with it... just don't expect it before summer!

So two more questions:

• Any recommendations on a small block reference I can use for educating my-self? One that will explain the in's and out's of the type of questions I've been asking. I mean, I queried for "small block ford" on Amazon.com and got a gazillion results: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/105-2669126-2975607?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=small+block+ford
• The 331 and 347 strokers tend to be the same price (or very close at least), why would one choose the 331 instead? My first guess would be better longevity... is that correct?

Once again, thanks for the commentary,

Scott

Getting closer

D.Hearne said:

...3. Domed pistons are mainly for applications needing more compression, but a flat top usually will make more power, due to the even flame travel. Hypereutectic cast pistons are made from a different alloy than cast pistons. Hyper's have more silicon added to make them harder (but more brittle) and they "grow" less when heated, allowing a tighter piston to wall clearance. This makes the engine's life span longer. 4...

Click to expand...

Right now I am still on the fence about the 331 or the 347; but leaning towards the 347. Looking at DSS, they obviously have some great long block options. Assuming I went with either the 331 or the 347 with the AFR 185's, which piston option makes the most sense from below?

<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 100%; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; mso-border-alt: outset windowtext .25pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 0in" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR style="HEIGHT: 0.75pt; mso-yfti-irow: 0"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 100%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 0.75pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="100%" colSpan=3></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 10.5pt; mso-yfti-irow: 1"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%">Pro Bullet 331 -3cc Flat Top<o></o>
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 34%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="34%"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 10.5pt; mso-yfti-irow: 2"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%">Pro Bullet 331 -13cc Max Quench<o></o>
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 34%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="34%"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 10.5pt; mso-yfti-irow: 3"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%">Pro Bullet 331 -18cc Max Quench Inline/Twisted Wedge<o></o>
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 34%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="34%"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 10.5pt; mso-yfti-irow: 4"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%">Pro Bullet 347 -3cc Flat Top<o></o>
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 34%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="34%"></TD></TR><TR style="HEIGHT: 10.5pt; mso-yfti-irow: 5; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%"></TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 33%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="33%">Pro Bullet 347 -18cc Max Quench Inline/Twisted Wedge<o></o>
</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; WIDTH: 34%; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" width="34%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I am at the stage where I am getting close to calling DSS to work out the details; just want to be as informed before hand as possible. Any recomendations on a specific person to speak with at DSS would be greatly appreciated.

Also, DSS is offering a free upgrade to Extreme X Forged pistons with their Pro Bullet series short and long blocks. Is this a big deal? They call them ultra-lightweight... (edit: never mind on this, found the details on their website. Extreme X Forged pistons)

And lastly (for this post at least), at some point in the future (will most likely be years), I will want to strap on a power adder of some flavor... be it turbo or super charger. Given this, is it worth stepping up to the plate for the level 10 CNC block at the Pro Bullet series? Or is the entry level Bullet series adequate with the level 2 CNC? From what I've read on-line, this is automated - finer level of block detailing... correct?

Next round of questions

Just got off the phone with Mike at DSS; I told him my story (that I want a street mannered sledge hammer - I'm sure he laughed on the inside). I want a low compression setup that will allow for a blower down the road (this will be a minimum of two years or more from now). He recommended staying in the 9.0 to 9.5:1 compression range as a good foundation for those plans. I have decided to target the 331 build (331SB2001) as well. So questions:

• First, I want to go with the AFR 185's... but there are choices to be made just within these heads. First they offer them in emissions legal and non-legal configurations. I have no emissions test requirements, so are there any reasons not to choose the latter? Then on top of that, the 185's come with the choice of a 58cc and 72cc combustion chamber; given I can choose the pistons and the heads at the same time, does the choice matter? In other words, with either the 58cc or 72cc, I can choose the compression based on dished piston or flat top piston combinations (at least sort of). If I am shooting for approximately a 9.0:1 compression, I could choose the 72cc heads with the flat top pistons (3cc reliefs) and I will get somewhere around 9.04:1. If I choose the 58cc heads with the 13cc dished pistons, I get around 9.4:1 compression. I guess I answered my own question as I assume that is a big difference. But then again, if I choose the 58cc heads with the 18cc max quench pistons, that gives me about 8.95:1 compression. Thoughts? Am I making this too complicated for my own good?
• Second, given what I've described so far, does the RPM Air-Gap make pretty good sense for the intake choice?
• And third, given the searches I've done on the forum, this is an often asked question: what roller cam should I choose? My current setup was using a XE262H Comp Cam (218I and 224E @ .05 with a 110 LSA). This is pretty mild all though I was happy with it. Performer 289 intake, heavily ported and massaged original heads, long tubes and a 600 CFM Holley. A great mild build that I had a lot of fun with.
• Key point, one reason I will be delaying the power adder; I will have many issues keeping the tires planted as is... so I will be focusing on the rear once this is done (actually from the tranny on back). So with that in mind, any other observations - thougts or comments? What else am I missing?

Thanks everyone,

Scott

SoCalCruising said:

...
Comp XE274HR is a good cam for both power and driveability. Or call FTI or Jay Allen for a custom. If you want to go less expensive, try the Ford "X" cam and advance it 4 degrees when you install it.
Theoretically, smaller chambers and larger dish makes for better combustion. That's how the modern stuff is now done. If you go Max Quench, then make sure your piston-to-deck clearance is no more than .005". If you buy from DSS, you can specify that, I believe.

Click to expand...

Cool, that is the cam I've seen listed in a lot of builds. So, it would be better to go with the 58cc heads and the max quench, assuming clearence is within spec as you stated?

raleighstang65 said:

Sucks that you have a cracked block but what a great excuse to upgrade! Good luck with the swap. I'd hate to see those nicely worked heads junking up your garage... wanna get rid of em'? I can even pick them up!
-Adam

Click to expand...

LOL

This process is going to take me a bit; my plan is to order the long block in next week to 10 days once my tax return is filed. But it may be the end of summer before my ole 289 gets yanked. She still runs to the grocery store (very strongly)... just drips a whole heck of a lot of oil! You should see my headers and tranny... they are a mess.


Anyway, I'll be pretty much be piecing the whole engine as the majority of the parts have less than 3k miles on them. The heads had a wicked port job done on them... I'll give you the local Raleigh discount on them.


Of course I am going to re-use what-ever I can to save $$$.

This is what I have so far

The combo I have linked will run ~ 9.4:1 compression. This spreadsheet lists my targeted build; please let me know what you think I am missing (I tried pasting this into the thread, but it said it was too many characters).

Engine_Build.xls

Scott