Finally getting stroked!

[jcode68]

I am finally ready to pull the trigger and purchase a 347 stroker long block from CHP for my 68 Fastback and had some questions I hope you guys can help with. My current engine is a stock 302 and I plan to be installing a T-5 tranny along with the new engine. The CHP 347 has the following specs: AFR 185's, roller cam (not sure of the detail specs) and valve train, 9.5:1 comp ratio, advertised 400 HP. Here are my questions:

1)The flywheel on my 302 was resurfaced approx 1,500 miles ago. Can I resue this on the new engine? If not, what type of flywheel do you suggest and where to purchase?

2)What is a good damper to use on this setup and where to purchase? Primary use is street driven.

3)Current 302 has an almost new Holley 600 CFM carb vacuum secondaries (model 4160 I believe). Will this carb be ideal for my new engine?

4)Would the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake be a good match for this setup? Any clearance issues running a stock hood?

5)Looking at the Hooker Super Comp's with ceramic coating. These appear to be a well used standard for a lot of guys, please confirm.

6)CHP offers the old style timing cover for $63 that I plan to include in my order. Any other considerations for this engine as it is going in a classic stang? Specifically, oil pan/pickup tube?

I know this is a lot of questions, but I really want to make as few mistakes as possible with my choices. thanks in advance.

 

[302 coupe]

1) flywheel will be ok so long as you reuse the same clutch disc. Make sure the flywheel and balancer has the same imbalance as the rotating assembly (very important!!)

2)damper...take your pick. Unless doing a lot of racing or sustained high rpms, the stock one is actually quite fine.

3)sounds like you have a standard issue 1850 series holley. It will work, but its not ideal. I'd shoot for a more performance based unit, like a 650 double pumper, or equivalent Demon carb.

4) Air gap will be good, as would the regular performer rpm. Weiand stealth would also be a good choice.

5) super comps are great. The regular comps will work just as well and will save you $200 bucks. Might want to make sure they fit AFR's, but I'm pretty sure they do.

6) an early timing cover for $63 sounds like a good idea. You'll need to know exactly what style it is before buying a water pump and balancer, that way you won't have issues with the timing pointer or water pump outlet.

 

[jcode68]

Thanks for the response 302 Coupe! Couple of follow on questions (of course)

"1) flywheel will be ok so long as you reuse the same clutch disc. Make sure the flywheel and balancer has the same imbalance as the rotating assembly (very important!!)"

My current transmission is the original 3 speed standard (yuk) and I believe I will be changing the clutch to be compatible with the new 5 speed. Does this mean I should not use the old flywheel due to wear pattern? Also, can you clarify what you mean by "Make sure the FW and balancer has the same imblanace as the rotating assembly"? What is the balancer? Do you mean the damper?


3)sounds like you have a standard issue 1850 series holley. It will work, but its not ideal. I'd shoot for a more performance based unit, like a 650 double pumper, or equivalent Demon carb.

The Holley I have is 600 CFM, vacuum secondaries. This model has the polished aluminum finish. Looks great and is hardly used, but if you think I need 600 CFM then I guess I will sell it and look at a Demon or another Holley.

5) super comps are great. The regular comps will work just as well and will save you $200 bucks. Might want to make sure they fit AFR's, but I'm pretty sure they do.

I'll check on the compatibility with AFR's. What's the difference between the 2? I want the ceramic coating for lower heat issues and longevity.

6) an early timing cover for $63 sounds like a good idea. You'll need to know exactly what style it is before buying a water pump and balancer, that way you won't have issues with the timing pointer or water pump outlet.

Wasn't aware there were multiple versions of the early style. What question can I ask them to be sure I get the best one for my application? Ideally, I would like to order the other parts I will need (damper, water pump etc..) before I receive the engine.

Any other words of wisdom or feedback from anyone who has done this type of swap is appreciated.

 

[D.Hearne]

Better spring for a new clutch and pressure plate, your current one, if it's a stock type won't handle the added torque. Something like a Centerforce Dual Friction is what you'll need. ( $350) The flywheel will be OK, provided it's got the correct bolt pattern for the pressure plate. T-5? That's going to be questionable behind a well built 347, unless it's been beefed up. Use your present timing cover and a high volume waterpump ( there's another thread here that I've covered on locally sourced HV pumps) That 600 Holley will do OK for the street, but will limit the topend performance of a 347, you'll need something along the lines of a 750 to feed it to it's potential. Your present damper will also work for a 347 as most are balanced for the same 28oz/in as your 302.

 

[LMan]

CHP sells their longblocks in both 28 and 50 oz versions....make sure you know which one you are getting.

 

[302 coupe]

1) basically, you need to ask CHP if the engine is built with a 28 oz imbalance or 50 oz imbalance. Find out what it is and we can go from there.

3) its your call....I personally feel that single pump 600 holleys are good for only really mild build ups. Your 347 would be happy with more cfm, rgeardless of what the 'cfm calculators' say. My 306 really likes its 650 dp.

5) thats a good question. From people I asked who have used/owned both, the only difference is the price. I'd go with the jet-hot coated competition headers, $350 as opposed to the super comps for $550. The super comps are made from slightly thinner tubing and have slightly different collectors. There is not a notable power difference between them, maybe 3 or 4 horses at really high rpm.

6) there are 4 different timing cover styles. Real early 260/289's had an odd cover that has a big freeze plug looking thing on top and it uses a slightly different water pump design, you don't see many of these, probably won't have to worry about getting this one. From 65-69 a more conventional design was used, these use a water pump with the passengers side water outlet and drivers side timing pointer, normally these can be found on cars with the earlier 3 bolt balancer pulley. From 70-early 80's the cover was made for a drivers side water pump outlet and passenger side timing pointer. The above 3 covers all have the oil dipstick going thru the bottom passenger side of the timing cover. From early 80's to 1995 the cover is essentially the same, but the oil dipstock goes into the side of the block rather than thru the timing cover. The timing pointer needs to be on the correct side for you to be able to set the ignition timing. If the balancer is for a 65-69, but you use say a 1975 timing cover, you won't be able to properly set the timing because the marks will be 'clocked' wrong.

I would say you'd want the 65-69 style to be compatible with your '68 accesories.

 

[BayBoss]

i have a 347 and i went with a one piece billet flywheel but i also went with a new clutch because stock clutches wont hold on a 347 especially if you ever take it to the track. as for the carburetor i use a holly 4150 hp 750 that works great. i did go with a race damper but that was probably overkill. i love the air gap and yes it fits uner the even with a 1 inch spacer that i use. let me know if you have any other questions?

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

1) Have the flywheel balance matched to the new engine and use a billet steel piece, don't use a stock gray iron piece, it could shatter with an engine as stout as that and take your legs off. Also, 10" clutches won't handle 347s (especially one that stout) because they lack the surface to transfer the torque.

2) I like Fluidampers, they rock. (Again, make sure the engine is balanced for the flywheel and balancer...it would be a good idea to get them through the engine builder and have the assembly balanced at that time).

3) No, that carb won't be near enough, I would go with a vac-sec Holley 750.

4) Go with an Edelbrock Performer RPM or even better a Weiand Stealth. They will work better than the RPM Air Gap in most normal driving conditions.

5) 1 3/4" ceramic coated headers will be the ideal header for that combo. (You will also need 2.5" dual w/H-pipe and high flow mufflers, such as the kit offered by Flowmaster).

6) Yes, I like to keep all components that don't need to be replaced, stock. You will need a special bracket for the side of a 5.0L block that will allow you to run the stock linkage. A stock oil pan will be fine. You might consider adding an FRPP windage tray to the combo. You might also consider an underdrive pulley set up to keep from frying your alternator (or a pulley from a Hi-Po). You will want a higher RPM water pump like those offered from Edelbrock. Keep with the stock volume & pressure oil pump. Use a HD oil pump driveshaft as offered from Ford Racing or ARP. Use ARP flywheel bolts and if you use a 10.5" clutch from a 5.0 (which works great) the stock pressure plate bolts will be fine, and you can get those and the necessary studs for a Ford Racing Billet Steel Flywheel through Ford racing in "Bolt and Dowel Kit."

You are also going to need a balanced suspension, proper gears and a good tire/wheel package for that combo to keep that monster corraled in that early Mustang.

Good luck!

 

[jcode68]

Appreciate all the feedback, this helps a lot. The devil is always in the detail and as I said, I want to make as few mistakes as possible. I do plan to replace the entire exhaust and was thinking about the Flowmaster 3 chamber setup (heard the 2 chambers are obnoxiously loud). I'll add the flywheel, clutch setup and 750 carb to my list. I was also considering an MSD Pro Billet distributor. Any feedback on this? Should I also plan to get an MSD 6a box for the best performance? Last question, I promise where is the best place to get motor mounts?
Thanks

 

[LMan]

I only use MSD after less-than-optimal experiences with other brands...the 6AL is a fine spark box.

There's nothing wrong with the billet distributor other than I think its serious overkill for your needs. Why spend $350 on a part when a $150 (or less) part will do?

But, its your money (or soon MSD's --- and it is certainly capable.

 

[hrspwrjunkie]

Appreciate all the feedback, this helps a lot. The devil is always in the detail and as I said, I want to make as few mistakes as possible. I do plan to replace the entire exhaust and was thinking about the Flowmaster 3 chamber setup (heard the 2 chambers are obnoxiously loud). I'll add the flywheel, clutch setup and 750 carb to my list. I was also considering an MSD Pro Billet distributor. Any feedback on this? Should I also plan to get an MSD 6a box for the best performance? Last question, I promise where is the best place to get motor mounts?
Thanks

I haven't had a problem with the 2 Chambers being too loud, but the 3 Chambers sound weird.

With an MSD distributor, get the one with vacuum advance (I've run the non- and a vacuum advance will make it much nicer to drive on the street, keep the cylinders from carboning up, and improve gas mileage). Yes, get the 6A box.

Check out NPD, they now have replacement polyurethane motor mounts (and get the accompanying transmission mount).

 

[mdjay]

I'm completely suprised no one answered with a SA remark for example.

FINALLY GETTING STROKED

It's such a happy place indeed

 

[D.Hearne]

1) Have the flywheel balance matched to the new engine and use a billet steel piece, don't use a stock gray iron piece, it could shatter with an engine as stout as that and take your legs off.
Good luck!

Really a moot point there, the iron flywheels can just as well shatter ( if they were inclined to do so) on a 347 as well as any other small block. Yea, it's happened, but it's not likely. If you've got the money for a $300 flywheel to mount that $350 clutch and pressure plate to, then go for it. Otherwise, chances are your feet and/or toes will be just as safe without it.

 

[ashford]

speedway motors has a steel flywheel 28oz 157 tooth flywheel for under $200, i bought one for my falcon to change to a manual on a 5 bolt bell housing but tranny was junk so i didnt use it, if you want i can see if the stock pressure plate from a 5.0 bolts to it

 

[jcode68]

Trigger has been pulled!

I'm psyched, I just placed my order for the CHP Street Fighter 347 long block. It will have AFR 185 heads, 9.5:1 compressions ratio and ~400 sweet ponies to wake up my 68 Fastback For the benefit of this thread, I specified the 28oz balance and opted for the Professional Products damper from CHP for $77bucks, also ordered a new old style timing cover (specified the correct on for my 68 Stang). Long block was $4,200.00 and total with shipping was $4,726.00. I am pleased with the price given the comparison I have done, most others were in excess of $5k before shipping and extras.

I wanted to say thanks again for the responses to my post, this was very helpful. One area I seem to have some difference of opinion is carb. The guy at CHP said 650 to 670 CFM (he suggested Holley Street Avenger) is perfect for this engine given it is mainly street driven. Others on this thread said that engine will run best with 750 CFM, anything less will not give full potential. Those of you running 347 strokers, what are you running? Lastly, I will be upgrading the flywheel and clutch to a 10.5 in to better handle the power. Is Centerforce the best choice here? If not, who and where is best place to order?

Thanks

 

[D.Hearne]

I wanted to say thanks again for the responses to my post, this was very helpful. One area I seem to have some difference of opinion is carb. The guy at CHP said 650 to 670 CFM (he suggested Holley Street Avenger) is perfect for this engine given it is mainly street driven. Others on this thread said that engine will run best with 750 CFM, anything less will not give full potential. Those of you running 347 strokers, what are you running?
Thanks

They're both correct. A 650-670 will give you better throttle response and the 750 will just let it breathe to it's full potential in the upper rpms. I'm running a 3x2 setup on my 331 and it's performance is fantastic, both in the lower and upper rpms. This is three Holley 250 cfm 2 bbls, the center is the primary carb, the two others are the secondaries. In operation, it's really similar to a spread bore carb.

 

[mdjay]

They're both correct. A 650-670 will give you better throttle response and the 750 will just let it breathe to it's full potential in the upper rpms. I'm running a 3x2 setup on my 331 and it's performance is fantastic, both in the lower and upper rpms. This is three Holley 250 cfm 2 bbls, the center is the primary carb, the two others are the secondaries. In operation, it's really similar to a spread bore carb.

That sounds cool. Got any pics?

 

[D.Hearne]

That sounds cool. Got any pics?

There were pics in both therangerstation.com and RangerPowersports.com forums. Look in the ranger station V8 forum, under "Beware--the 331 is up and running"