Finally got a couple blocks to build up...which heads? AFR, Edelbrock, or Holley

[tim_the_toolman]

Well as stated in another thread I got a couple blocks and other junk so I can start building up my REAL motor when I blow the current mill. So far here is what i plan on doing unless I am advised otherwise.

30 over, torque plate hone

get stock crank checked, polished, balanced, and maybe over stroked 0.015 if they find any issues, this will make the short block a 310 or real close, obviously a 306 if the crank is OK
i have been reading all of my old mags and as much internet stuff as possible as far as heads and compression ratio go and here is where I am lost.

The car will be a daily driver, not long distances, just 10 miles or so a day. I will be drag racing at the local 1/8th every Friday. I am converting to Mass Air. I want aggressive but tolerable idle quality and drivability. i want to run pump gas (93). I will be using nitrous, more than likely a NX wet kit as I can get them at cost. I will probably upgrade the nozzle on the kit to one that will spray more than 150hp, soy 200 ish, or multiple stages. I know I can make it a beast on spray but I want the NA combo to be impressive as well. I could care less about milage. i plan on using a 3.73 gear. full length headers, Using whatever intake will match the combo best. The car is a 5 speed.

There was a thread here a little while back that had a link to a carbed stock cam 5.0 making like 400 fwhp with just afr 165's and 1.7 rockers. Is that realistic? What heads should I consider? What compression ratio should be used spraying as much as I want to? Do I need to Oring the block and heads or can I use cometic gaskets? Any input on the bottom end holding up? I would like the car to go 7's in the 1/8 on motor and maybe high 6's on spray.


HELP

 

[Rick 91GT]

RPM II or Victor 5.0, AFR 185's with upgraded springs and seals, custom cam, 1.6 rockers.

Since you want pump gas build it to around 10:1, N2O loves compression as long as the fuel is there (may need race gas at track depends on weather, humidity and cam).

7's will be no problem at all.....

Use a MLS style gasket, Cometic or Fel-Pro

 

[tim_the_toolman]

wow. i was thinking the compression would have to be a lot lower. what kind of power do you think a combo like this would make with the right supporting hardware?

anyone else have an opinion?

 

[giddyup306]

5.0 Mustangs and Superfords had an EXCELLENT coverage of prettymuch all aftermarket heads vs the stock heads. I beleve they covered 6 issues. I recomend reading all the info in there and then make your decision. There's good info in there.

 

[Rick 91GT]

Tim, my lil NA 302 combo made about 340RWHP 325fttq, on the bottle with a 175shot it made 500 and 740fttq....

 

[kimcrumb]

Tim, my lil NA 302 combo made about 340RWHP 325fttq, on the bottle with a 175shot it made 500 and 740fttq....

if it's a 302, 306 or 310, go with AFR 165 w/EDL Performer RPM Intake & FMS F-303 cam w/1.6 rockers. this combo with longtube headers will wake ur car up. i mean it. i've gotta 95 z28 (auto w/2800 stall) w/stock cam & heads & it runs 12.7 w/nitto drag radials. on the other hand, i built a 83 mustang conv. (5 speed) with the above combo & it outruns my camaro. her best is 12.1 w/o nitrous. remember, u start working on a 302 as compared to a 350. if Ford would've thought abt it in the first place, then we won't be fighting over mustang/camaro issue.


1983 glx conv. 5.0, AFR 165, EDL Perf. RPM Man., FMS F-303, 670 street av. carb, BBK Long-tubes, dual 2.5 Flowmasters, Centerforce Dual Friction, Sub-Frames, FMS Alum. Driveshaft, Lakewood Upper & Lower Control Arms, Torque Box Reinf., 3.73, 6-point Roll Cage, Hurst Billet Shifter, M.T. E.T. Streets, Holley Sniper Kit (100 hp), A.C. & Smog-pump delete ASP pulleys, March 2 piece Underdrive pulleys...ATI P-1SC Procharger 9 psi w/3-core Intercooler waiting to be installed

 

[kimcrumb]

Tim, my lil NA 302 combo made about 340RWHP 325fttq, on the bottle with a 175shot it made 500 and 740fttq....

if it's a 302, 306 or 310, go with AFR 165 w/EDL Performer RPM Intake & FMS F-303 cam w/1.6 rockers. this combo with longtube headers will wake ur car up. i mean it. i've gotta 95 z28 (auto w/2800 stall) w/stock cam & heads, 3.73:1, CAI, GMS MAF sensor, 52mm TB, Coolant by-pass, BBK Shorties, HPP III w/160 Powerstat & it runs 12.7 w/nitto drag radials. on the other hand, i built a 83 mustang conv. (5 speed) with the above combo & it outruns my camaro. her best is 12.1 w/o nitrous. remember, u start working on a 302 as compared to a 350. if Ford would've thought abt it in the first place, then we won't be fighting over mustang/camaro issue.


1983 glx conv. 5.0, AFR 165, EDL Perf. RPM Man., FMS F-303, TRW 10.1 Forged Pistons, 670 street av. carb, EDL Victor series water pump, Melling HP oil pump, Mallory 6A, Holley Blue Elec. fuel pump w/reg., BBK Long-tubes, dual 2.5 Flowmasters, Centerforce Dual Friction, Sub-Frames, FMS Alum. Driveshaft, Lakewood Upper & Lower Control Arms, Torque Box Reinf., 3.73, 6-point Roll Cage, Hurst Billet Shifter, M.T. E.T. Streets, Holley Sniper Kit (100 hp), A.C. & Smog-pump delete ASP pulleys, March 2 piece Underdrive pulleys...ATI P-1SC Procharger 9 psi w/3-core Intercooler waiting to be installed

 

[tim_the_toolman]

if it's a 302, 306 or 310, go with AFR 165 w/EDL Performer RPM Intake & FMS F-303 cam w/1.6 rockers. this combo with longtube headers will wake ur car up. i mean it. i've gotta 95 z28 (auto w/2800 stall) w/stock cam & heads, 3.73:1, CAI, GMS MAF sensor, 52mm TB, Coolant by-pass, BBK Shorties, HPP III w/160 Powerstat & it runs 12.7 w/nitto drag radials. on the other hand, i built a 83 mustang conv. (5 speed) with the above combo & it outruns my camaro. her best is 12.1 w/o nitrous. remember, u start working on a 302 as compared to a 350. if Ford would've thought abt it in the first place, then we won't be fighting over mustang/camaro issue.


1983 glx conv. 5.0, AFR 165, EDL Perf. RPM Man., FMS F-303, TRW 10.1 Forged Pistons, 670 street av. carb, EDL Victor series water pump, Melling HP oil pump, Mallory 6A, Holley Blue Elec. fuel pump w/reg., BBK Long-tubes, dual 2.5 Flowmasters, Centerforce Dual Friction, Sub-Frames, FMS Alum. Driveshaft, Lakewood Upper & Lower Control Arms, Torque Box Reinf., 3.73, 6-point Roll Cage, Hurst Billet Shifter, M.T. E.T. Streets, Holley Sniper Kit (100 hp), A.C. & Smog-pump delete ASP pulleys, March 2 piece Underdrive pulleys...ATI P-1SC Procharger 9 psi w/3-core Intercooler waiting to be installed

what compression you runnin?

 

[tim_the_toolman]

Rick...I just looked at your website. What was your compression with the holley heads. I have read and re-read the head write up in Muscle Mustangs and that's why I am stuck trying to make a desicion on the heads. the arf's had the smaller chamber size so their compression was a bit higher than the rest tested. the edelbrocks and holleys were real close, they arent ported and the compression could be bumped up a bit more with the piston choice to match the afrs. what i am wondering is if the edelbrocks or hollys would actually perform better than the afrs with equal compression, and even better yet with some port work.

 

[Rick 91GT]

My compression was 8.8:1, I had flycut my stock pistons to fit the AFM cam.

Tim, I'll shoot you a PM, I have some info for you..

 

[Dark Knight]

hmm.. you picked up 415fttq on a 175 shot?

 

[Rick 91GT]

Yup, multiple pass on the dyno confirmed it.... Car was a real handful to drive till it settled down after about 500ft out.

My 1/8mph times compute out to 11.7's, car went 11.0's, picking up 33mph in the last 1/8th.

 

[tim_the_toolman]

Yup, multiple pass on the dyno confirmed it.... Car was a real handful to drive till it settled down after about 500ft out.

My 1/8mph times compute out to 11.7's, car went 11.0's, picking up 33mph in the last 1/8th.

I believe it....nitrous is very torquey. We have a car we run a 150 wet NX kit on and traction is a major issue. If you dont belive us look for some nitrous dynos. It is very common to see nitrous cars running torque numbers equal to or greater than big blok motors but with a small block car. MMFF just did a stroker write up and there is a graph in the mag illustrating the same. Ricks numbers may seem a bit high but certainly not unbelievable, especially if the tune is dead on.

 

[stang2841]

would 9:5:1 be a good daily driver compression ratio if it sits like 2 days a week and is only driven 15 miles a day?

or is that to high? could i use pump gas 93 octane with it? and where would my timing be?

 

[87'GTstang]

Consider this, stock compression is about 9:!, so no way is 9.5:1 too high at all. You most definitely won't have any issues with still running on pump gas. When you start tipping the big numbers like 11:1 then you may or may not be able to run 93 octane. 10:1 should also still be a good number. If you run into pinging problems, you can always move the ignition timing around a little. In the end it's the same case with all engines - it is entirely in the tune of the setup. It may take a while but once you get it, your car will run at the margin which you just know you got it all right - and you will know it.

 

[stang2841]

hm 10:1? on 93 octane?

what would i need to do to get it running efficiently off of that?

 

[87'GTstang]

Not a whole lot, just tune your engine's timing until it stops pinging or tune it until you hear pinging and then back off a little. 93 octane is no biggie on compression like that. A lot of engines today believe it or not are making a comeback with the high compression war. Quite a few of your mid-scale cars come with 10:1 or a little more today. You hardly ever see something as low as 8:1 because technology has allowed us to do better with the same materials.

Just remember though, take the extra time to add the bracing and strengthen what you can. Where applicable, grab forged parts and grab a good pair of head gaskets. Nitrous can be tricky and unpredictable so go easy at first - i've seen many an engine blow up from it.

 

[stangersteve]

your buildup

Hey man on the heads it really depends on how much money you want to spend. I like the AFR 205cc heads, but they are alittle pricey. But you get a 2.08' intake valves and 1.6' exhaust plus there fully ported. Or you could go with the AFR 185cc heads with a 2.02 intake, which is alittle cheaper. If you want to run on pump gas I wouldnt go over 11.00:1 compression, and if your gonna run a 200+ shot, and you want to race for along time deffinatly up your bottom end and o-ring the block and heads. I'd do it for a just incase. You might want to go faster later ya know. Then you'll still have a bullit proof bottom end and you wont have to worry about blowing head gaskets. Me personally I'm all about overdoing it just alittle rather than under doin it.