Engine Foxbody Tuners

[Crigano]

Hi Folks. I have a stock 93 LX 5.0 with an exhaust and air filter. The car runs great but i'm wondering if getting a handheld tuner or chip would be a good idea, without have to go the usual route of heads, cam, intake etc.

I'm doubt i'll see a massive gain in HP (but it would be nice), i think that's unrealistic to expect out of a stock fox but, i would like to see if i can tune the car so it at least can keep up with my V6 kia telluride lol.

Thanks for the help.

 

[96pushrod]

You really won’t gain much. Take the spout out, set timing to 12* and put the spout in then run premium fuel and enjoy. Easiest, most cost effective route to take for a car that’s pretty much stock.

 

[Crigano]

You really won’t gain much. Take the spout out, set timing to 12* and put the spout in then run premium fuel and enjoy. Easiest, most cost effective route to take for a car that’s pretty much stock.

Thanks. That's what i've seen others do as well. Bumping the timing up and changing the air filter seem to be the best two options for stock stangs. I have gears in the car which help but wasn't sure if there was a digital tuner or chip that could help these motors pull better from mid to higher rpms.

 

[Noobz347]

Thanks. That's what i've seen others do as well. Bumping the timing up and changing the air filter seem to be the best two options for stock stangs. I have gears in the car which help but wasn't sure if there was a digital tuner or chip that could help these motors pull better from mid to higher rpms.

There is not. The stock EEC performs those functions very well and also has an adaptive ability to compensate for things that are not [perfect]. The only thing that necessitates an aftermarket unit is having to tune outside of those adaptive abilities. Your car is not modified to the point where that is necessary.

What does it all mean? You need boost

 

[96pushrod]

Thanks. That's what i've seen others do as well. Bumping the timing up and changing the air filter seem to be the best two options for stock stangs. I have gears in the car which help but wasn't sure if there was a digital tuner or chip that could help these motors pull better from mid to higher rpms.

For stock engines (or at least stock heads/cam/intakes) there’s really nothing that will net a very large gain.

 

[Crigano]

For stock engines (or at least stock heads/cam/intakes) there’s really nothing that will net a very large gain.

Yeah, thats what i figured. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Crigano]

There is not. The stock EEC performs those functions very well and also has an adaptive ability to compensate for things that are not [perfect]. The only thing that necessitates an aftermarket unit is having to tune outside of those adaptive abilities. Your car is not modified to the point where that is necessary.

What does it all mean? You need boost

Yeah, this what i figured but figured i'd ask. What modifications , in your opinion, would i benefit from a tune? If i did and upper intake and throttle body would i benefit from a tune?

 

[Noobz347]

Yeah, this what i figured but figured i'd ask. What modifications , in your opinion, would i benefit from a tune? If i did and upper intake and throttle body would i benefit from a tune?

No. Those mods won't gain you much either.

Once you get into heads, cam, intake, TB, and injectors (as a working package) then you'd be in an area that would require additional tuning.

 

[Crigano]

No. Those mods won't gain you much either.

Once you get into heads, cam, intake, TB, and injectors (as a working package) then you'd be in an area that would require additional tuning.

Good to know that the whole package would require the tune, not just a few simple mods.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I would even say that the stock ECU will still run the car with heads, cam, intakes, throttle body, with a bigger MAF that is calibrated to larger injectors . I would strongly suggest an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a 190 lph quality fuel pump (Walbro, Aeromotive, or the like) with these mods. Will a tune help? Yes in that it you can really dial things in but the gains will be marginal at best if a base idle reset is done along with plugs, cap, rotors, and good plug wires being installed.

Basically the stock ECU can compensate for quite a bit before you need a tune.

 

[Crigano]

I would even say that the stock ECU will still run the car with heads, cam, intakes, throttle body, with a bigger MAF that is calibrated to larger injectors . I would strongly suggest an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a 190 lph quality fuel pump (Walbro, Aeromotive, or the like) with these mods. Will a tune help? Yes in that it you can really dial things in but the gains will be marginal at best if a base idle reset is done along with plugs, cap, rotors, and good plug wires being installed.

Basically the stock ECU can compensate for quite a bit before you need a tune.

Thanks! I should the timing be bumped to 12 or 14? or does it basically depend on the car.

 

[AeroCoupe]

I would say that on a stock motor it depends on how good the ignition parts are and the octane rating of the fuel. Some got away with 14 deg and others ran 12 deg. I would start at 12 deg and then read the plugs for detonation.

 

[Crigano]

I would say that on a stock motor it depends on how good the ignition parts are and the octane rating of the fuel. Some got away with 14 deg and others ran 12 deg. I would start at 12 deg and then read the plugs for detonation.

thank you!

 

[90sickfox]

FYI that Telluride makes 291hp and 262ft. lbs. of torque. Weighs about 1k pounds more though. It's also got all the abilities of variable valve timing, direct injection control, and various other things that tweak the power curve and put the power to the ground. The stock mustang has a 225hp 302. If it's an automatic more power will be robbed through the transmission. A stock mustang has the power of an average 4 cylinder today. Might be hard to beat that Telluride without heads, cam, gears, and intake. ( especially if it's an automatic )

 

[Crigano]

FYI that Telluride makes 291hp and 262ft. lbs. of torque. Weighs about 1k pounds more though. It's also got all the abilities of variable valve timing, direct injection control, and various other things that tweak the power curve and put the power to the ground. The stock mustang has a 225hp 302. If it's an automatic more power will be robbed through the transmission. A stock mustang has the power of an average 4 cylinder today. Might be hard to beat that Telluride without heads, cam, gears, and intake. ( especially if it's an automatic )

Lol! Telluride also has that 8 speed transmission. I’m quite happy with its power for being a heavy vehicle.

 

[Cheapskate207]

I would even say that the stock ECU will still run the car with heads, cam, intakes, throttle body, with a bigger MAF that is calibrated to larger injectors . I would strongly suggest an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a 190 lph quality fuel pump (Walbro, Aeromotive, or the like) with these mods. Will a tune help? Yes in that it you can really dial things in but the gains will be marginal at best if a base idle reset is done along with plugs, cap, rotors, and good plug wires being installed.

Basically the stock ECU can compensate for quite a bit before you need a tune.

Abosolutely. It’ll run fine without a tune but there will likely be more on the table. My car picked up 50hp (250 to 300) when I got a custom tune. This was a HCI setup with a 75mm throttle body, 30lb injectors, mad and a stock replacement fuel pump.

 

[Monkeybutt2000]

Lol, quick google search has the Telluride between 14.9-15.4 in the 1/4. Not quick. I went 14.20 in a stock LX with the "10min tuneup".

 

[2000xp8]

Abosolutely. It’ll run fine without a tune but there will likely be more on the table. My car picked up 50hp (250 to 300) when I got a custom tune. This was a HCI setup with a 75mm throttle body, 30lb injectors, mad and a stock replacement fuel pump.

Come on, there was an issue then.
I know you guys think i'm nuts for being too pro stock computer, but let's not forget most of this forum probably made 300rwhp without a tune at one time.
Nobody is gaining 50rwhp NA from a tune on a 302 on a car that runs properly.
Guys that don't even know what they are doing get 265rwhp with gt40p junky yard heads.

To be clear, i am more open to tuning systems as they have improved and become more user friendly.
I'm not running my usual tune nothing program, but nobody should ever expect 50hp from a tune on a NA 302.

 

[Cheapskate207]

All the tuner did was set timing, installed a sct and tuned it. I drove the car there. All sensors were working properly and the car ran fine. Maybe I’m missing something, idk but I’ll attach pics of the first and last dyno pulls

 

[AeroCoupe]

That is proof and I’d say kinda typical but don’t take what I’m about to say as crapping on your combo.

A lot of people bolt on parts and do not get the gains they should have due to not knowing what they are doing. This is due to them not understanding engines and how they work. I have seen a lot of HCI swaps that netted right at the 300 rwhp mark with no chip due to the proper selection of the HCI as well as the correct TB, MAF, and injectors with a solid adjustable pressure regulator. Person set a goal and worked with a knowledgeable engine builder and got the most out of it. I’ve even seen these combos get a tune and basically gain about 10-15 hp and about the same in torque depending on where in the curve you look.

A tuner can take a mismatched HCI combo with not so great supporting parts (TB, MAF, injectors, etc) and get bigger gains because they manipulate more in an effort to get the parts to work together better.

My car will not run without a tune because it’s so far out of the ECU’s capability just by having a 2000 GT 80mm MAF let alone the only stock part left being the block.

With all of that being said tunes will help but if you plan a mild 302/306 build and use parts that work well with each other you won’t gain much of anything for the $500+ tune. Again, just based off of what I’ve seen and done over the last 20+ years. Also, I did dumb early on so this comes from learning the hard way and consulting a good engine builder.