FP Eccentric rubbing timing cover?

[stangbuilder66]

Sorry for a double post (also in the 5.0 tech, but those guys haven't seemed to have any replies. Maybe some of you have seen this)

Hey guys, I bought a classic mustang with a 69 302 off a guy. I am tearing down the engine, the first 302 I have ever done. Normally I work on I-6 300's, so I am wondering about this problem. When I pulled the timing cover, there is a wear pattern from the fuel pump eccentric. It isn't too deep of a gouge, just enough to feel it when I run my finger over it.

My question is if I need to replace the eccentric with a narrower one, or if my cam might have had too much play in it. The thrust plate was installed and doesn't appear to be worn out, and it was tightened down. Is wear on the cover normal? I did notice that the cam, with the thrust plate still on, was able to come forward a little bit (1/8 inch maybe). Is it supposed to have play in it like that? The heads and lifters and all were out.

For the record, I never heard the engine run. I knew it smoked when I got it, and got a great deal on the car so I just hauled it into the garage and started to tear it down.

Suggestions?

 

[BullittStangV8]

Was the eccentric a one piece, or 2 peice eccentric?

 

[ratio411]

There are different combos from the factory of:
Cam timing gear
Fuel pump ecentrics
and
Cam retainer plate

They are not supposed to be mixed and matched from their original configuration OR if an aftermarket timing set is used, they say which combo of parts to use with the timing set.

If someone in the past swapped parts, or used an aftermarket timing set, they may have mismatched the combo.

 

[D.Hearne]

They may have used the early timing set (think these were like pre 65 or 66) without the spacer washer behind it. The revised cam gear needed no washer, it was built into the gear. Never the less, you're not the first who's had the fuel pump eccentric rub the timing cover. There were at least three different eccentrics. I have all three in my parts boxes. Two were cast iron, one was stamped steel-2 piece. The cast ones I have are two different thicknesses. They may be both from small and big block (FE series) though, I don't recall.

 

[stangbuilder66]

Mine is a one piece. The timing cover looks stock for the 69, but that doesn't mean anything I know. I'll see if I can pull the numbers or snap some pictures. The eccentric is pretty bulky, I know that.

What would be the fix if someone mixed and matched? I am going to replace the cam with something similar to stock, nothing too wild. I had planned on replacing the timing gears and chain. ANything I should look for? Can I buy a matching retaining plate? Anyplace where I can buy everything together to make sure it matches? I'd hate to wear a hole in my timing cover, and it looks like this engine was headed there.

 

[D.Hearne]

Just get a timing set for a 66 to 2001 302. I looked back thru my books and the change was sometime in 1965 for the cam sprocket, so look for any timing set spec'd for a 66-2001 289/302.

 

[ratio411]

The timing cover looks stock for the 69, but that doesn't mean anything I know. I'll see if I can pull the numbers or snap some pictures.

The timing cover is not the issue.
They never changed all that much to affect the eccentric.

The car should have a 1 pc eccentric IIRC.

Sounds like your stuff is right, could just be too much play.
The parts under the cover run very close together.

 

[mustangman1974]

There should be that much play in the cam. Also you can get the two piece eccentric and its narrower. I had something similar when installing my new 5.0 the cam gear setup protruded 1/8 more then the older 5.0 motor. I installed a 2 piece and never look back.

 

[ratio411]

There should be that much play in the cam. Also you can get the two piece eccentric and its narrower. I had something similar when installing my new 5.0 the cam gear setup protruded 1/8 more then the older 5.0 motor. I installed a 2 piece and never look back.

It does depend on the timing set.
My Coyles double roller said "Warning: Must use one piece pump eccentric"...
I am sure there are some that use the other, but they will tell you in the paperwork.
They are not supposed to be interchanged on a whim.
I don't know the reason why, I just know they aren't.

 

[coolblue65]

Well here is what I learned with the help of D.Hearne.

There are at least 3 types of eccentrics:

1. The one the came on my original 289, was a thicker 1 piece. That had a hole for the cam pin to go through the timing chain and into the eccentric. This did not fit on my late model block with the early timing cover.

2. Next one (from DHearne) is a one-piece that was a bit thinner, and still had the hole like above for the cam pin to hold it in place. This is the one I used.

3. Last one is the 2-piece (from DHearne) is the same thickness as the 2nd 1 piece, but you have to use a shorter cam pin, because it has a small bent tab that holds it in place in the timing gear.

 

[D.Hearne]

There should be that much play in the cam. Also you can get the two piece eccentric and its narrower. I had something similar when installing my new 5.0 the cam gear setup protruded 1/8 more then the older 5.0 motor. I installed a 2 piece and never look back.

There should never be 1/8" play in the cam. Good way to destroy the lobes and lifters. And wear the retainer plate. I ended up with play like that in tow of my motors, turns out the culprit was the Ford Racing timing set I used for both. It's the one with the steel cam gear. It wore into the retainer plate on both by 1/8". If they had gone longer, they would have worn thru the plate completely and eventually found the way thru the timing cover. Then you can imagine what would have happened next.

 

[mustangman1974]

Sorry about the typo. you would think a teacher would spell check before posting?? hmm must be the fumes.

 

[jbuening]

Interesting post coolblue65. I had clearance issues with my CompCams tru dual roller timing set and my timing cover. The one piece fuel eccentric was touching the timing set and was acting like a hole saw on the timing cover. I'll see if i can drag up some horror pics. It damaged the cover pretty good and it was only with me cranking the motor over by hand. I ended up milling the end of the fuel pump eccentric down to eliminate the clearance issue. I wonder if this timing set was made for that "short" one piece eccentric? Any idea what year motors those shorter ones came with?

 

[coupe5.0]

I had to do a little clearancing on mine because i used a roller timing set for a late model 5.0. Not a big deal, if you catch it before the timing cover gets gouged up.

 

[jbuening]

Some pics that i found of the carnage from awhile back

Clearance issues was probably less than the thickness of the timing cover gasket, but just enough to do that damage. This was done just by cranking the motor over by hand with a socket on the dampner bolt. Good thing i found it before initial startup