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  • 1974 - 1978 Mustang II Talk & Tech

front alignment

  • Thread starter Thread starter jansen29
  • Start date Start date Jan 21, 2010

jansen29

Member
Mar 26, 2007
73
0
7
Mountain View, CA
Jan 21, 2010
#1
  • Jan 21, 2010
  • #1
Hey everyone,

Has anyone had any issue with there alinement just slipping out on them and if so what did they do to stop it from doing it again. This has happened to me three times now.

Thanks,
Jansen
 

78CobraII

Moderator
Jul 31, 1998
1,808
8
39
Birmingham, AL
Jan 25, 2010
#2
  • Jan 25, 2010
  • #2
Caster, camber, or toe-in?

Caster is set by adjustment to the strut rod. This should almost never need to be adjusted except in the case of damage such as an accident, rotten strut rod bushings, or even rust through in the frame side mount.

Camber is set by adjusting the top A-arm in or out. The cross bar that holds the bushings and arm is held to the frame by bolts which move in adjustment slots. I could see this moving if the bolts weren't tightened far enough and you hit something solid with a wheel. You can also have bad bushings or a bent A-arm cause alignment problems.

Toe-in is set by adjusting the sleeves on the steering rack tie rod ends. Again if the sleeve bolts are not tightened enough I could see this adjustment moving if you hit something.

The early Mustangs Camber was set with either shims on the upper A-arm or later with a eccentric on the lower arm. The MII front suspension could probably benefit form the shim setup. The MII Camber is set by loosening the bolts on the upper A-arm, then inserting a tool that can precisely adjust the setting by means of a screw. You see them on eBay ever once in a while. I'm not sure how an alignment shop does it without the tool...
 

jansen29

Member
Mar 26, 2007
73
0
7
Mountain View, CA
Jan 28, 2010
#3
  • Jan 28, 2010
  • #3
Yes, it is the upper A arm that slid out on me. Someone that was talking on the phone coming down an on ramp did not see me so I had to go down a small hill to keep from hitting them and I think it slid out on me. Also this happened again when I hit a big pot hole before. I have new A Arms and all so I do not know why this is happening.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Jansen
 

78CobraII

Moderator
Jul 31, 1998
1,808
8
39
Birmingham, AL
Jan 28, 2010
#4
  • Jan 28, 2010
  • #4
Jansen,

Did you use the original hardware on the new A-arm? If not, was the replacement hardware identical? I haven't had an A-arm off of any of my MII's as of yet, so I don't know if they have lock washers and/or serrated washers.

If the original hardware was used, then its likely just a case of it not being tightened down far enough. Was it torqued down to the factory specs?

If you had a front-end shop do this, it may have been a while since they've seen this type of front suspension...

I had a couple of accidental off-road excursions over the years in my old '76 hatch, and drove it hard all the time, but never screwed up the alignment on it.
 

jansen29

Member
Mar 26, 2007
73
0
7
Mountain View, CA
Jan 28, 2010
#5
  • Jan 28, 2010
  • #5
Thanks for the help,

I had a shop do the alinement but it took them three times to get it right. There are no lock washers or washer of any kind under the nuts so I thought I would get some lock washers and some plylock nuts and put those on. As far as I know it was torqued correctly but something went wrong. I did hit that hill pretty hard we will see what happens when I change out the hardware.
Thanks for the help
 

Wart

I'm Mad as HELL and I'M not Gonna Take it ANYMORE!
Founding Member
Sep 1, 1998
408
3
58
NE Ohio
Jan 30, 2010
#6
  • Jan 30, 2010
  • #6
The bottom of the upper control arm shaft is knurled, or at least the shaft is knurled where the bolts go through the shaft.

This is so when the bolts are tightened the knurling bites into the top of the spring pocket and holds the shaft/ arm in place.

Then the shaft slips and starts tearing up the top of the pocket. The more it slips the more it chews the less it wants to stay in place.
 

jansen29

Member
Mar 26, 2007
73
0
7
Mountain View, CA
Jan 30, 2010
#7
  • Jan 30, 2010
  • #7
So, what would solve that issue? Welding some more metal at the top where the a arm shaft bits into the metal?

Thanks,
Jansen
 

Wart

I'm Mad as HELL and I'M not Gonna Take it ANYMORE!
Founding Member
Sep 1, 1998
408
3
58
NE Ohio
Jan 30, 2010
#8
  • Jan 30, 2010
  • #8
jansen29 said:
So, what would solve that issue? Welding some more metal at the top where the a arm shaft bits into the metal?

Thanks,
Jansen
Click to expand...

Thats a good question.

Even if the shaft hasn't slipped often enough to tear up the top of the pocket too badly tightening the shaft bolt can cause a dimple. Dimples aren't bad if the dimples where you need it to be. If the dimple is any off from where you want the shaft the shaft isn't inclined to stay in place.

One thing that will help you is making sure the knurling is clean of rust and shavings.

Hell of it is an alignment will hold with things pretty buggered up, until you hit something.

Sorry for the rambling, my minds doing the Way Back number. In The Day (that saying should be trademarked) there was the GM vs Ford alignment argument. GM used shims which butted the suspension up against a frame member of sourts and kept the suspension from shifting BUT oftenly the alignment couldn't be gotten just right. Ford used the slotted/ sliding suspension which the alignment could be gotten just right but a good shot could and would knock it out.

I remember being amazed how long my first II (bought new) held an alignment, how well it steered and tracked ... until I hit a crater ... It's a painful memory.

Anyhow, the fix ... I think the first move in any type of fix would be to fill weld and grind flat any tearing or dimpling. That could require someone somewhat skilled in wielding thin stuff. That would get you back to stock.

In preventing further slippage I was thinking of installing a thick washer between the shaft and pocket, getting an alignment then (heavy tack) welding the washer to the pocket because steel to steel CF wouldn't be great enough to keep the suspenstion from slipping. It would have to be a pretty thick washer. Something similar to whats found on a rear axle U-Bolt. Might not be a big enough OD so I would ask my friend make me some washers out of cold roll or something.

If a washer is thick enough it could raise the uppers inner enough to improve the dynamic geometry .. but thats it's own story with it's own engineering considerations.

I haven't thought about this in years. Back when a II was my daily driver I thought about this issue often. Always knew that one day I would get beck to working on my cars and when I did this is one of the issues I would address.
 

rufus

New Member
Feb 19, 2000
35
0
0
Chicago
Feb 1, 2010
#9
  • Feb 1, 2010
  • #9
Alignments are my life..... You can adjust camber without the tool if you know right where to brace the breaker bar.

It can be a pain in the butt, but it does work. I don't have every alignment tool out there, but what I do have works just fine.

Actually, you can adjust caster a little at the upper arm by moving just the front or rear of the arm in or out separately.

Just like adding shims to a GM, which I still do regularly. As long as the nuts come free and the bolt doesn't turn in the frame mount, it's easy.
 
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