gain 100 hp 95 stock conv.

[scotsco]

I have a stock 95 gt 5 speed with 30,000 original mi. took it to a well known engine builder/machineshop and asked the best way to add about 100 hp I was told not to use bolt ons but to rebuild engine with new comp. cam,,bored .030 over, bbk headers.Trusting the judgement of the shop this was done.I picked the car up and couldnt tell a very significant difference. I then had a dyno test showing a max of 207rwhp. To compare this to stock specs I was told to add about 15% bringing it to only 232hp.Needless to say Im nothappy with this. If anyone has any suggestions feel free.This car was in perfect mechanical condition and did'nt need to be rebuilt for any other reason.The cost was about 5000K.

Thanks,Scotsco

 

[cjrpony]

What exactly was supposedly done to the motor? Sounds like they just did a stock rebuild and didn't change much. If you paid 5K for that, then you got took big time. I don't know how they were going to get +100 HP with just a cam swap and headers unless they did MAJOR work to the stock heads and intake, and even then thats a tall order. Doesn't really matter if you are only putting 207 down to the wheels. Did you get in writing what they were supposed to accomplish? I would take it back to them with the dyno print out and get an explaination. It sounds like they screwed you, but without knowing what exactly they supposedly did, I can't say.

 

[scotsco]

100 hp gain

As far as I can tell the rebuild was nothing special except for the boring .030, over ,installed a mild comp cam.I know pistons were changed,he re-used the crankshaft, said it was OK ?
I took the car to this shop because Ive known the owner since H.S. [40yrs]He builds super stock engines along with normal repairs.But was not involved with my car.The shop has about 40 employees.My knowledge of engine mods is low on the scale; that's why I trusted this shop and took their advice. Now I'm learning fast about the most common starter mods like intake , fuel components, heads, blowers etc.I believe the people that worked on my car had communication problems and didn't work towards the same end result.I wasn't given any written claim about HP.but the engine builder new what I expected.I think they try to steer people toward rebuilding vs. add ons because machine work is where the money is.You could be right that" they just screwed me".the work they did doesn't seem to follow anything on stangnet. the man in charge of my job said they don't have a dyno test machine.He guessed the car should develop 260-300bhp,as I said it tested at 207@4000rpm rwhp.I'm calling the owner and see what he says.Hopefully he'll stand behind the work.After reading all the set-ups on stangnet I feel like about$ 4000 was tossed out the window.
I'm adding a few things about this rebuild.First, I was charged 1150.00 for the rebuild kit which didn't include the cam or crank. the cam specs are GVL .533-----.544 [email protected] 215----220; 110.0 intake center line.Do you know what boring .030 over provides as far as gain.I get lost in the technical terms, but learning fast.

 

[GTA_V6_Mustang]

As far as I can tell the rebuild was nothing special except for the boring .030, over ,installed a mild comp cam.I know pistons were changed,he re-used the crankshaft, said it was OK ?
I took the car to this shop because Ive known the owner since H.S. [40yrs]He builds super stock engines along with normal repairs.But was not involved with my car.The shop has about 40 employees.My knowledge of engine mods is low on the scale; that's why I trusted this shop and took their advice. Now I'm learning fast about the most common starter mods like intake , fuel components, heads, blowers etc.I believe the people that worked on my car had communication problems and didn't work towards the same end result.I wasn't given any written claim about HP.but the engine builder new what I expected.I think they try to steer people toward rebuilding vs. add ons because machine work is where the money is.You could be right that" they just screwed me".the work they did doesn't seem to follow anything on stangnet. the man in charge of my job said they don't have a dyno test machine.He guessed the car should develop 260-300bhp,as I said it tested at 207@4000rpm rwhp.I'm calling the owner and see what he says.Hopefully he'll stand behind the work.After reading all the set-ups on stangnet I feel like about$ 4000 was tossed out the window.
I'm adding a few things about this rebuild.First, I was charged 1150.00 for the rebuild kit which didn't include the cam or crank. the cam specs are GVL .533-----.544 [email protected] 215----220; 110.0 intake center line.Do you know what boring .030 over provides as far as gain.I get lost in the technical terms, but learning fast.

The cam sounds decent enough but without heads or intake or absolutely anything else its worthless. My other 94 that was totaly stock with just u/d pulleys and xpipe made 225/300 to the wheels. And if they had the engine totally apart why not just slap some aluminum heads while putting it back together? Boring it .030 over just added 4 cubes I believe but with a totally stock engine there is no gain just a waist of money. With 30k original miles there is no reason at all they should have torn that motor apart, I am sorry but you got ripped a new hole. There are guys here with close to 200k on the original motor with H/C/I makeing 300+ with no problems. At this point though I dont think there is anything you can do. Just take it as a learning experience and find new friends. You should really ask around here if your not sure about something before you do it. You will get great help from the people here. Good luck

 

[cjrpony]

Your .030 overbore will bring your to a 306 ci engine. This is assuming they did not put in a stroker kit. I would like to know what if anything they did with the intake and heads as they are big bottlenecks on a stock 5.0. From the cam specs, it sounds like a pretty health cam, but if they did nothing to address airflow then it is a waste. 1150 dollars for a rebuild kit? You can buy a pretty good 331 or 347 stroker kit including crank and cam for that. Talk with your friend the owner and see what more you can find out. It still sounds like a standard rebuild which you were way overcharged for.

You need to have a plan on what you want and how to get there. Most guys start with the small bolt ons and build up their car, piece by piece. Ideally, each upgrade should be part of the plan and make sense with the other parts on the car. You can put a big cam in a car, but if it is not a good match for the other parts on the engine, it is not going to perform well or at all. Keep reading the forums and asking questions, you'll learn alot! Most of the guys on here eat, drink and sleep Mustang and will be glad to help you. Good luck, and I hope you get it worked out.

 

[cantbuytime]

Any news? i am interested to hear why you were charged out the ars for a mild job.. Did somebody at the shop pocket some parts/

was any work to the trans done? that will eat up funds quick

 

[scotsco]

still dealing with re-build

The owner agreed to free labor with me buying parts.So far we've installed eldebrock heads, intake, roller rockers, MAF 19llb set-up, bbk throttle body 70 mm, comp cam-270HR/ 544lift. bbk shory headers, magnaflow exhaust.
Now trying to find the right valve covers to clear intake . Intake spacer interferes with hood closing.Im still spending way more cash than I should have for this gain.A crate engine would have been cheaper.

 

[final5-0]

I would say such a combo as listed would not work well with 19's

Even so ... if you were gonna use 19's
then
the OEM meter would be compatible
thus
the need for an aftermarket 19# caled meter would be moot or invalid

I would run 24's or better yet ... 30's with that combo
and
Get a tune to make stock like drivability and max power

Grady

 

[cjrpony]

I would say such a combo as listed would not work well with 19's

Even so ... if you were gonna use 19's
then
the OEM meter would be compatible
thus
the need for an aftermarket 19# caled meter would be moot or invalid

I would run 24's or better yet ... 30's with that combo
and
Get a tune to make stock like drivability and max power

Grady

+1 on the injector upgrade

 

[RMODEL65]

The owner agreed to free labor with me buying parts.So far we've installed eldebrock heads, intake, roller rockers, MAF 19llb set-up, bbk throttle body 70 mm, comp cam-270HR/ 544lift. bbk shory headers, magnaflow exhaust.
Now trying to find the right valve covers to clear intake . Intake spacer interferes with hood closing.Im still spending way more cash than I should have for this gain.A crate engine would have been cheaper.

either trick flow covers or stock fox valve covers will work(have to mod the fill tube a little)

 

[scotsco]

gain 100 hp

Well, thanks to everyone for the advice I'm nearing the end of my project and have found a shop thats much more experienced with mustangs. I have the car being tuned now and deciding which MAFto use The tuner likes the stock vs. the Pro-m meter Ive installed saying he can get a better low-end performance because of calibration issues with the Pro-m.I did change to the 24lb injectors so now waiting for the tuner to finish.

 

[scotsco]

gain 100 hp

Well, thanks to everyone for the advice I'm nearing the end of my project and have found a shop thats much more experienced with mustangs. I have the car being tuned now and deciding which MAFto use The tuner likes the stock vs. the Pro-m meter Ive installed saying he can get a better low-end performance because of calibration issues with the Pro-m.I did change to the 24lb injectors so now waiting for the tuner to finish.I'm still dealing with the first shop to resolve money issues.After installing all the bolt-on parts they said, "take it to get tuned, we dont have the equipmet to do it here". They build 2000 hp drag engines but cant tune a mustang?

 

[CDQICKGT]

They want you out of there hair as fast as possible.

 

[Pokageek]

Sorry, I have not heard of calibration issues with a pro-m.

 

[stangbangerrick]

Sorry to hear about all the issues you had to endure in your quest for 300rwhp for your stang. Always a mustang forum like this one is a good place to start. Most of us have made mistakes when doing a engine build and there is nothing better than hands on experince, that how one really learns the ins and out. But whats great about a mustang forum like this you can ask question and do research on the web and can come up with apretty good plan on how to accomplish your goal/s on a engine build. I know it is to late now but if I had an engine with less than lets say 130K miles and it was still a strong running motor I would just do a H.C.I. You can even get a compelet kit from Trick Flow for $2,500.00 to $2,600.00 that would give you 350-360hp at the flywheel (Summit Racing prices). These kits take all the guess work out of what cam to used with what heads or intake plus all the gaskets are included. Or you can talk to one of the engine builder who only build Ford small block motors like Woody at Fordstroker.com. You cann't beat an engine shop that builds only engines for one specific car company, they are usually your best bet. Just let this be one learning experince that opens one eyes to this simple fact you cann't always trust people, this guy you have known for over 40 years knew what you wanted in your engine build and gave you a engine that only made 207rwhp is very sad excuse for a mechanic. I would never use his shop again and would never refer anyone to it. Goodluck.

PS The shop that did your engine work more than likely has an engine dyno and since your engine is in the car you need a shop that has a chassis dyno. A shop that just builds engines normally would not have a chassis dyno.

 

[final5-0]

Well, thanks to everyone for the advice I'm nearing the end of my project and have found a shop thats much more experienced with mustangs. I have the car being tuned now and deciding which MAFto use The tuner likes the stock vs. the Pro-m meter Ive installed saying he can get a better low-end performance because of calibration issues with the Pro-m.I did change to the 24lb injectors so now waiting for the tuner to finish.I'm still dealing with the first shop to resolve money issues.After installing all the bolt-on parts they said, "take it to get tuned, we dont have the equipmet to do it here". They build 2000 hp drag engines but cant tune a mustang?

Your thread title was 100 over OEM

OEM is around 180 so 100 more would most likely still be in the range of the
little OEM meter

I'd agree with the tuner
about OEM meters being easier to tune than aftermarket :Word:

Grady

 

[scotsco]

Gain 100HP

My 95 vert is finally finished, runs good, but not as good as it should. After dealing with a deceptive engine shop another shop fixed some of the mistakes and finished tuning . Ended up at about 250 rwhp with over $12,000 spent The first mistake was allowing the engine shop to rebuild my 30,000 mi engine.All I needed was a Head- intake- cam kit, and a few other parts totaling about $3500. I would guess labor should be about 1500 tops to install heads -intake- cam and maybe injectors and throttle body.I've got Eldebrock aluminum performer heads, intake, comp cam 270HR magnum. 1.6 rollers, BBK 70mm TB, stock MAK, BBK cold air intake, larger radiator, shorty BBK headers, Magnaflow X-pipe-catback exaust, 3.73 rear-end, stock 5-speed,Ram clutch. I am considering filing suit against the engine builder but my attorney says I would need an expert witness to explain so the judge would understand my case.Not sure if worth the expense in attorney fees etc.I'm in Indiana if anyone has any suggestions or needs to know the shop NOT to take your Mustang to.Thanks for the help from all who responded so far. I"ve learned to do the research before starting the job instead of after the damage is done.Going through this rebuild I've become informed of every alternative in 5.0 engine building and am now a certified expert (idiot).

 

[2002BLGT]

My 95 vert is finally finished, runs good, but not as good as it should. After dealing with a deceptive engine shop another shop fixed some of the mistakes and finished tuning . Ended up at about 250 rwhp with over $12,000 spent The first mistake was allowing the engine shop to rebuild my 30,000 mi engine.All I needed was a Head- intake- cam kit, and a few other parts totaling about $3500. I would guess labor should be about 1500 tops to install heads -intake- cam and maybe injectors and throttle body.I've got Eldebrock aluminum performer heads, intake, comp cam 270HR magnum. 1.6 rollers, BBK 70mm TB, stock MAK, BBK cold air intake, larger radiator, shorty BBK headers, Magnaflow X-pipe-catback exaust, 3.73 rear-end, stock 5-speed,Ram clutch. I am considering filing suit against the engine builder but my attorney says I would need an expert witness to explain so the judge would understand my case.Not sure if worth the expense in attorney fees etc.I'm in Indiana if anyone has any suggestions or needs to know the shop NOT to take your Mustang to.Thanks for the help from all who responded so far. I"ve learned to do the research before starting the job instead of after the damage is done.Going through this rebuild I've become informed of every alternative in 5.0 engine building and am now a certified expert (idiot).

I only charge $875 labor to do HCI kits on 5.0s

 

[Zero_chance]

This is just terrible and I hate when I hear things like this. All that money spent and youre still not happy. Heck for 12K, you could have left your low mileage car alone, bought another average sn95 5.0 for between 3 and 5K, done a Trick flow HCI for around say 3500 installed, or gotten a Kenne Bell for around 4K... and would have had more power, more money left over and been tons happier. Or hell, youcould have done the HCI AND power adder and still had money left over. Damn shame.

 

[95Vert383AOD]

I use a SCT meter....they have built in temp sensors so you can wire your stock intake temp wires in.