getting rid of orange peel

mtaqua · May 3, 2010

getting rid of orange peel - FOLLOW UP

Is it possible to spray with a cheap HVLP and not get orange peel. I am spraying sherwin NP75 (not cheap), with a cheap HVLP I got off ebay with a 1.4 tip. The first time I had the pressure at the gun way to low. Second time had 50 psi at the gun with the trigger pulled and paint coming out. The compressor is keeping up well. I opened the fluid control know out about 2.5 turns (maybe a little less). Sprayed on cardboard and it looked like what I thought was good. Oval pattern about 6-7 inches long, fadding out and no runs in the middle. Then after I sprayed the car again, more freaking orange peel. I don't mind a little, because I plan on sanding it smooth, but seems like there is so much of it by the time I sand it smooth most of the primer is gone, and sometimes I am getting down to metal. Should I get a new gun for the next coat?

chris66dad · May 3, 2010

I used a 1.3 tip Sharp Finex gun ($100) and had just a little orange peel. Setting up the gun is probably the most important part to eliminate orange peel. Do test shoots on something until you have the gun dialed in for air and fluid.
My paint job pictures: Paint

mtaqua · May 3, 2010

after a day on the internet I bought a astro evo 1.4 lvlp gun. I did have smaller orange peel with the higher pressure, but still more than I want. I hope the astro works like I want. It is made for smaller compressors (I am thinking that might be my issue). I thought mine was enough, but maybe not. Anyways, we'll see how it works.

67rcks · May 4, 2010

It is not that easy to paint the car nicely as you might have seen on utube videos. IMO quality paint with proper viscosity and application technique in a dustfree environment are more important than expensive gun.

adam_rich · May 6, 2010

A couple months back I started working in a collision and restoration shop. I've been watching our painter when I get a chance and i've picked up some tips along the way. Now I havn't held the gun or asked about the specs on it, but I get the feeling that as lond as the gun has a consistent pattern that is all he's concerned about. This guy really rocks at his prep work and says it's all in the prep. Clean, clean, clean the car off. Good air flow if you're in a booth really helps the paint settle down evenly. Special care for technique when spraying the clear will bury most imperfections in the base coat. But every once in a while dust will find it's way into the paint, or the clear will suck up and form orange peel. In this case, if there is enough of a clear coat he'll polish the car with rubbing compound and all will be good. But when we do a complete paint and there are imperfections, and depending on what the customer wants, we'll let the car sit for a week or two to let all the thinners evaporate out and reveal any further body work lines or primer scratches. Then we'll pull the car back into the booth, block and lightly wet sand with 1000 (500 if really bad) being careful not to burn through, and reshoot another clear coat or two. I have never seen a more flat paint job in my life, and 3 or 4 months later now the car still looks wet.

I wish I could be more specific as to what guns to use or exact spray pattern or over lap, but I'm definitely still new at body and paint work.

TT670 · May 6, 2010

Is there a possibility that the gun's fine and your reduction paint/reducer/activator ratio is incorrect? It can be a cause of orange peel that no gun adjustment will cure

mtaqua · May 6, 2010

Part of it is my technique, I am sure being that it was my first time. Part of it was the $20 ebay gun. I ended up sending the Astro back and got a Asturo. Supposedly, it is even better for a lower cfm compressor. I really think (hope it was the lack of cfm and gun to match). When I upped the pressure the orange peel was much less, but I still don't think the pattern was correct. So we'll see if a gun designed more for my compressor will work better. I am mixing exactly per the directions, so I can't see much error being there. I should be spraying in another week and will post results. Been doing more research on techniques and gun tuning, so hopefully that'll help too.

67rcks · May 7, 2010

use whatever pressure the gun is set for. if you create an orange peel, there are two possible reasons - 1) application technique i.e. you have to spray a lower layer, then wait some 10 minutes (at 20 celsius), then spray upper layer, or 2) bad paint = too viscous, using generic hardener, thinner (use only acrylic thinner, not acetone or similar thinners).

edit: good gun is hvlp one from harbor freight ($40). if you don't have means to reduce bugs/dust get at least water and oil filter for your compressor.

kttrucks · May 11, 2010

Texture in the clear coat IE- Orange peel is a result of a combination of things.... yes, you need a good gun, but more importantly, you need to select the proper reducer for the temperature you're spraying in, as well as the proper hardener, depending on what the paint system requires. Technique plays an important part as well, so does proper air flow (CFM) and the correct volume going through your hose and gun. Air starvation is a major cause of texture, so make sure your compressor matches the requirement of your gun. This requires a ton of research... not necessarily a ton of cash but you do need a good gun to spray paint. I've never had good luck with the cheap guns.... and if you're gonna commit to several hundred hours of prep, blocking, masking, sanding, etc as well as several hundred dollars in paint, it only makes sense to purchase a good spray gun. These questions are very specific, but you're providing no information about the conditions you're spraying, the system you're using, or the technique you're spraying with.

more detail please.

KT.

mtaqua · May 11, 2010

I am mixing exactly per the directions, so I can't see much error being there. My CFM was to low for my gun, I ordered a gun that will work with my CFM. Should be here today, might spray some more this weekend.

chris66dad · May 11, 2010

We used 2 air compressors (110volts and 7cfm @ 50psi) on DIFFERENT electrical circuits to get the 10 CFM of air volume the spray gun needed. The compressor regulators were set to 90psi and they were T'eed into the air dryer with 25 foot hoses which helped cool the air and allow the water to condense.

The air dryer regulator was set to 50 PSI (wall pressure). The gun was set for about 10psi at the nozzle. We never ran out of air pressure even on long shoots.

Mustang Jim · May 11, 2010

chris66dad said:
We used 2 air compressors (110volts and 7cfm @ 50psi) on DIFFERENT electrical circuits to get the 10 CFM of air volume the spray gun needed. The compressor regulators were set to 90psi and they were T'eed into the air dryer with 25 foot hoses which helped cool the air and allow the water to condense.

The air dryer regulator was set to 50 PSI (wall pressure). The gun was set for about 10psi at the nozzle. We never ran out of air pressure even on long shoots.

You used two compressors? How did you come up with that idea? That's pretty smart if you already had two small compressors. I could see how it works. Very cool!

chris66dad · May 11, 2010

It seemed like it would work to me so I tried it. I did not have 220 volts for a large compressor and needed an excuse to buy a new one to replace the old 1 I had. It is a really good option especially if you have buddy who will loan you his for the paint job.
Just for fun, here is the backyard paint booth I built to spray the Mustang in. It also worked very well to keep the bugs and junk out of the paint.
Paint booth pictures and write up: Paint Booth
Basecoat/clearcoat: Paint
Just another option to consider doing

mtaqua · May 31, 2010

Well the new gun worked awesome. The Epoxy primer went on real smooth. But then I topped with feather fill. That stuff makes for some great orange peel. Planned on using it to smooth the car out, so no worries there. If you are using a low pressure (low coverage gun), I would not do more than a quart at a time then clean the gun, and always filter the paint before putting it in the gun. The feather fill went on with some peel, but I am using it to finish the body work, so it will all get sanded. Now I can do a section at a time. Painting sucks.

hungrymonkey · May 31, 2010

chris66dad said:
It seemed like it would work to me so I tried it. I did not have 220 volts for a large compressor and needed an excuse to buy a new one to replace the old 1 I had. It is a really good option especially if you have buddy who will loan you his for the paint job.
Just for fun, here is the backyard paint booth I built to spray the Mustang in. It also worked very well to keep the bugs and junk out of the paint.
Paint booth pictures and write up: Paint Booth
Basecoat/clearcoat: Paint
Just another option to consider doing

how bad did you stink up the neighborhood? This is my concern about doing a backyard spray at my house.

I would do it, if I could do it safely.

mtaqua · May 31, 2010

yards are .5 acre so did it out front no worries it is dispersed in about 15ft

TeamEntity · May 31, 2010

i love to paint and would love to get into the art, problem were i live is nobody that will take on an apprentice or a school anywere near. You took a step in the right direction just by wanting to paint. Most guys won't touch that with a ten foot pole.

mtaqua · May 31, 2010

Yeah I lucked out with a booth. There is one at the base in a near by town. Supposed to be pretty great. I am doing all the body work/priming in the yard. Get a some bugs and dust, but it is all sanded out anyways. I really wish I had a spare 5-6 grand to pay someone to do it. If it wasn't for burn through I probably wouldn't hate it as much. Seems like right before it gets smooth I get to bare metal. Which means start over.

TeamEntity · May 31, 2010

i would like to see some of this orange peel. not only that the techinque your using to wet sand. Most old cars had some orange peel. In fact the purists are upset that the overpriced auction cars are too perfect in the paint department.

hungrymonkey · May 31, 2010

TeamEntity said:
i would like to see some of this orange peel. not only that the techinque your using to wet sand. Most old cars had some orange peel. In fact the purists are upset that the overpriced auction cars are too perfect in the paint department.

Orange peel is OEM for new cars as well.

I looked at an 03 terminator when they were new on the lots, I was blown away at the amount of defects in the paint. Overspray, orange peel, etc.

getting rid of orange peel

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