GT or GTO?

celticstanger · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
I say show some 1/4 times and does that s/c include a 6spd. or irs....not! Scratch both, I say get the SRT4 and for the price of a GT and S/C---you could have a 10sec. NEON!!!

I've had my car over a year, and have missed neither option. However, if I'd gone for a deeply discounted shoe-box GTO, I think I'd have spent every day of the last year regretting it.

Bottom line, almost everyone makes cosmetic mods - rims, tint, etc, because looks DO count. For a barely perceptable edge in performance, the GTO is too much money to spend on a bland Pontiac. I don't think the car is ugly, it's just blah. If they sold it at (or close to) the Mustang's price, then we'd have a REAL dogfight - a straight up choice between performance or appeal. Right now, you pay a hefty premium for a fractional performance edge, but aesthetically speaking, the Pony walks the Goat.

mattkimsey · Nov 9, 2005

celticstanger said:
I've had my car over a year, and have missed neither option. However, if I'd gone for a deeply discounted shoe-box GTO, I think I'd have spent every day of the last year regretting it.

Bottom line, almost everyone makes cosmetic mods - rims, tint, etc, because looks DO count. For a barely perceptable edge in performance, the GTO is too much money to spend on a bland Pontiac. I don't think the car is ugly, it's just blah. If they sold it at (or close to) the Mustang's price, then we'd have a REAL dogfight - a straight up choice between performance or appeal. Right now, you pay a hefty premium for a fractional performance edge, but aesthetically speaking, the Pony walks the Goat.

Aesthetics are like always....opinionated. 100 hp may seem fractional to you, but I bet when Ford makes a special edition with over 350hp...it'll be very close to the GTO price.

celticstanger · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Aesthetics are like always....opinionated. 100 hp may seem fractional to you, but I bet when Ford makes a special edition with over 350hp...it'll be very close to the GTO price.

Don't get me wrong - the 100hp I like. By fractional I meant in terms of how much quicker the goat is.

I'm not going to knock a beefy 6.0 with 400hp!

1meanZ · Nov 9, 2005

GusinCA said:
For me it boils down to one simple thing:

The GTO doesn't come in a convertible version.

That's why there is a '06 Stang in my garage.

sy1172 · Nov 9, 2005

Buy a used Z06 for the same money and get the good engine, great looks and value. The Mustang & GTO will tank in value.

tom281 · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
So you compare the base Mustang with a well equiped base GTO? How about we compare what most are really selling for and that would be about 28k.....so a difference of 5k. Also, like I said, can you get an extra 100hp out of a GT and still keep the warranty? Someone brought up the Roush S/C, but that will negate your $7100 and actually cost more when you consider what most GT's sell for. Plus the GTO has IRS and a T56. I think it was about a month ago, that I saw GTO's at 30k with employee pricing....that was a deal.

And like I said, you can also get a SRT4 for 21k that has around 250hp and is about 400lbs lighter. When compared to the GT, that's a lot of extra money for 50hp, dontcha think?

I'm referring to performance capabilities between the two cars, which when you compare 1/4 mile times they are very comparable. Forget about factory horsepower ratings, who cares if a car has 100 horse more than another when the actual speed between the two is comparable. That is, unless you're the type that sits around with buddies in school and talks about how much horse your car has, but hesitates to back it up because you know that its an even race. That's what makes the Mustang, at $25K or $28K or even $30K a better bargain compared to the GTO. The GTO is a great car, but the Mustang is a better value, period.

You also keep bringing up the Neon, which is a good value too for its level of performance, but its not in the same league as either the Mustang or the GTO in either performance or looks, stock vs. stock in my opinion. I wouldn't buy a Neon SRT4, just because they seem to be Dodge's answer to the import crowd. Both the Mustang and GTO have heritage, which is something that a Neon with a turbo will never have.

tom281 · Nov 9, 2005

sy1172 said:
Buy a used Z06 for the same money and get the good engine, great looks and value. The Mustang & GTO will tank in value.

Buying a used, low mileage Z06 for around $30K would be great.........

mattkimsey · Nov 9, 2005

tom281 said:
I'm referring to performance capabilities between the two cars, which when you compare 1/4 mile times they are very comparable. Forget about factory horsepower ratings, who cares if a car has 100 horse more than another when the actual speed between the two is comparable. That is, unless you're the type that sits around with buddies in school and talks about how much horse your car has, but hesitates to back it up because you know that its an even race. That's what makes the Mustang, at $25K or $28K or even $30K a better bargain compared to the GTO. The GTO is a great car, but the Mustang is a better value, period.

You also keep bringing up the Neon, which is a good value too for its level of performance, but its not in the same league as either the Mustang or the GTO in either performance or looks, stock vs. stock in my opinion. I wouldn't buy a Neon SRT4, just because they seem to be Dodge's answer to the import crowd. Both the Mustang and GTO have heritage, which is something that a Neon with a turbo will never have.

The GTO is faster case closed. It's a better motor that is more responsive to modification, no need for a power adder. It has IRS, and a nicer interior, a stronger transmission (t56). It's also more rare so you don't see them everywhere you go.

You're quick to dismiss the SRT4 when talking about bang for the buck. Like I said, looks are opinionated, so to some the Neon may look better. Heritage sounds like a good excuse for a car which doesn't deliver the goods like one that cost thousands less.

Also, better bargain is also subjective. To some, a car with a live axle that they see everywhere isn't what they want. They may also want a car which is a little less flamboyant in comparison to a Mustang(think M3). This would make the GTO a better bargain.

In regards to price, doesn't GM have a $3000 rebate going on all remaining '05 models? That would certainly lower the price of a GTO.

celticstanger · Nov 9, 2005

The only thing I'd want from the GTO are the extra ponies. You can keep the rest of it. As far as looks go, well, they don't have opinions. They may be subjective, yes. But we're not talking Charger v Mustang here, we're talking about a car which, unless dragged over to look under the hood, no-one would know was in any way performance geared.

As for "rare". C'mon, you can't claim kudos cos Pontiac can't GIVE the thing away - even with the $3K incentive you mention. Also, I think they're less rare than you think - you (like everyone else) probably just don't notice em when they pass you by ("wow, that Grand Am was haulin' A!")

EDIT : and yes, the "Charger" is probably more accurately a "Magnum Coupe" with it's 4 doors, but it has that mean look that the GTO couldn't muster if you slapped WWII fighter-style vinyl teeth on it.

tom281 · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
The GTO is faster case closed. It's a better motor that is more responsive to modification, no need for a power adder. It has IRS, and a nicer interior, a stronger transmission (t56). It's also more rare so you don't see them everywhere you go.

You're quick to dismiss the SRT4 when talking about bang for the buck. Like I said, looks are opinionated, so to some the Neon may look better. Heritage sounds like a good excuse for a car which doesn't deliver the goods like one that cost thousands less.

Also, better bargain is also subjective. To some, a car with a live axle that they see everywhere isn't what they want. They may also want a car which is a little less flamboyant in comparison to a Mustang(think M3). This would make the GTO a better bargain.

In regards to price, doesn't GM have a $3000 rebate going on all remaining '05 models? That would certainly lower the price of a GTO.

Subjective this, subjective that; seems to be your favorite word. Maybe you should try owning one of the cars your describing or even just driving them to make your own comparisons, and report back to us with your own subjective feedback......the world waits with anticipation of your findings.

mattkimsey · Nov 9, 2005

celticstanger said:
The only thing I'd want from the GTO are the extra ponies. You can keep the rest of it. As far as looks go, well, they don't have opinions. They may be subjective, yes. But we're not talking Charger v Mustang here, we're talking about a car which, unless dragged over to look under the hood, no-one would know was in any way performance geared.

As for "rare". C'mon, you can't claim kudos cos Pontiac can't GIVE the thing away - even with the $3K incentive you mention. Also, I think they're less rare than you think - you (like everyone else) probably just don't notice em when they pass you by ("wow, that Grand Am was haulin' A!")

EDIT : and yes, the "Charger" is probably more accurately a "Magnum Coupe" with it's 4 doors, but it has that mean look that the GTO couldn't muster if you slapped WWII fighter-style vinyl teeth on it.

Many people like the sleeper look....I know I do. Cops also don't notice ya as much!

If I'm not mistaken, the GTO is about 27,000 units per year and the GT is about 60,000 + all the v-6's. So yeah, the GTO is much more rare.

After looking on GTOforum, it looks like many of them got an '05 for 27-29k.....same as a GT....I'd have to get a GTO with the price so close.

mattkimsey · Nov 9, 2005

tom281 said:
Subjective this, subjective that; seems to be your favorite word. Maybe you should try owning one of the cars your describing or even just driving them to make your own comparisons, and report back to us with your own subjective feedback......the world waits with anticipation of your findings.

Maybe I should go out and buy all new cars, so I can have opinion that you approve of

Saying that looks are subjective requires buying a car?....:Teh-Win:

duner · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Maybe I should go out and buy all new cars, so I can have opinion that you approve of

Just make sure that the $1000 Geo with the 1000 shot of nawz is the first one you buy

mattkimsey · Nov 9, 2005

duner said:
Just make sure that the $1000 Geo with the 1000 shot of nawz is the first one you buy

After I buy it, it's off to pepboys for full APC customization

If i'm lucky

duner · Nov 9, 2005

mattkimsey said:
After I buy it, it's off to pepboys for full APC customization

If i'm lucky

Hell yea that's the one!

And don't forget the very special bumper sticker "Please God give me a smooth one"

celticstanger · Nov 10, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Many people like the sleeper look....I know I do. Cops also don't notice ya as much!

If I'm not mistaken, the GTO is about 27,000 units per year and the GT is about 60,000 + all the v-6's. So yeah, the GTO is much more rare.

After looking on GTOforum, it looks like many of them got an '05 for 27-29k.....same as a GT....I'd have to get a GTO with the price so close.

Like I said, don't claim kudos cos Pontiac can't shift them, even with deep discounts. That isn't "rare", that's "unpopular". It's a mass-produced car, just like the Mustang. It just aint selling. They're just lying around sales/shipping/storage lots instead of being on the road. That's "Pinto rare", not "classic rare".

If you want "rare", try this - I drive past my local Ford dealership every day of the weekend and NEVER see a GT on the lot. BUT, guess what they've got up on the ramps at the front entrance - yup, a used GTO. Wonder what that guy traded it for ?

mattkimsey · Nov 10, 2005

celticstanger said:
Like I said, don't claim kudos cos Pontiac can't shift them, even with deep discounts. That isn't "rare", that's "unpopular". It's a mass-produced car, just like the Mustang. It just aint selling. They're just lying around sales/shipping/storage lots instead of being on the road. That's "Pinto rare", not "classic rare".

If you want "rare", try this - I drive past my local Ford dealership every day of the weekend and NEVER see a GT on the lot. BUT, guess what they've got up on the ramps at the front entrance - yup, a used GTO. Wonder what that guy traded it for ?

Hmmm, classic case of "I don't have an arument, so I'll bring up sales figures". How is that an argument towards which car is better? If you worked for GM or Ford and were arguing with someone else that worked for the other company---it may be an interesting debate The fact is, there are TONS MORE Mustangs on the road, sales figures don't discredit this claim.

Didn't someone else make a thread about how the Mustang isn't selling that well, compared to years past.

celticstanger · Nov 10, 2005

? Put the bong down, bro. YOU'RE the one rambling on about "rare" GTO's - I only responded. If I was too obscure and you missed the point, lemme break it down -

you PERCIEVE the GTO to be rare, because they aren't selling well. Mentioning sales is a relevant response, since the lack of GTO's on the road reflects nothing more than the simple truth that very few people want one.

I didn't bring it up - you did. Somehow my response is "not having an argument" but your nonsensical assertion that the GTO is "rare" is valid? You're talking through your purple starfish, my friend.

mattkimsey · Nov 10, 2005

celticstanger said:
? Put the bong down, bro. YOU'RE the one rambling on about "rare" GTO's - I only responded. If I was too obscure and you missed the point, lemme break it down -

Yes, you responded to something off topic, which was the result of your initial insertion---not something that was up for debate. You have tried, heroically, to include that point as off topic as it may be.

celticstanger said:
you PERCIEVE the GTO to be rare, because they aren't selling well. Mentioning sales is a relevant response, since the lack of GTO's on the road reflects nothing more than the simple truth that very few people want one.

Thank you for delving in to my sense of perception! You are wrong though. The number of units sold has nothing to do with rarity. It's simple mathematics 27,000 units is far less than 130,000 units. Popularity has nothing to do with this FACT unless you're on a delusional tantrum. Regardless of which car is more popular, you are going to see less GTO's.....say it with me..."twenty-seven-thousand-is-less-than-one-hundred-and-thirty-thousand":SNSign: Perception of reality has nothing to do with the simple facts.

tom281 · Nov 10, 2005

mattkimsey said:
Yes, you responded to something off topic, which was the result of your initial insertion---not something that was up for debate. You have tried, heroically, to include that point as off topic as it may be.

Thank you for delving in to my sense of perception! You are wrong though. The number of units sold has nothing to do with rarity. It's simple mathematics 27,000 units is far less than 130,000 units. Popularity has nothing to do with this FACT unless you're on a delusional tantrum. Regardless of which car is more popular, you are going to see less GTO's.....say it with me..."twenty-seven-thousand-is-less-than-one-hundred-and-thirty-thousand":SNSign: Perception of reality has nothing to do with the simple facts.

Dude, you've proven nothing in this thread other than your a young kid that likes to argue and try to convince people that your opinions matter, while others' do not. Everything you've said, especially in your point above, is worthless. I hinted yesterday that if you're going to continue spewing abunch of worthless arguements towards other people's points, that atleast you should go out and get some actual experience with the subject at hand so that you can make atleast educated statements to enforce your arguements. Now, I simply suggest that you put down the computer that your mommy bought you, work hard to pay your own bills, and move onto something else. :Zip2:

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