H Pattern Is A Thing Of The Past?

cleanLX · Nov 13, 2017

I accept that is what is coming... even if it does not stir any emotions.
I've never understood electricity... ions and whatnot in a wire making sh!t happen... my brain just does not get it...
Explosions, making a piston go down and a crank go round, now, that I get... even if i don't understand what is that makes the plug go spark, I at least understand explosions...

So, what is the process for recycling the electric batteries of these vehicles, and how are they on the environment?
My guess is we are trading one evil for another... ???

Adieu · Nov 13, 2017

madmike1157 said:
And as an FYI since the scenario was already asked about above,..the engine will shutoff on you while sitting in the intersection waiting on a left turn opportunity.....

You just give the steering wheel a slight tug, and the engine restarts, and remains on until the next time the car comes to a stop.

Not true on all makes and models, the 2.7EB F150 just sits there if you tug on the steering wheel.

Ryuk · Nov 13, 2017

madmike1157 said:
Agreed. Anybody that has ever been lucky enough to experience the power of a Tesla ( I have, and in Ludicrous mode....it's ludicrous) 700 ft lb of torque, zero to 60's in under 4 seconds, and 200+ miles on a charge, w/ no noise, no emissions, no $ 5 a gal gasoline ( when that happens again) and you fill it up, at home.

Electric cars are also mandated to make up over 75% of a auto dealers offerings by 2025...it's gonna happen boys,..just as surely as digital replaced analog, FI replaced carburetors, and turbochargers help replace big inch engines.

Maybe I'll be the first one to convert a hobby car over to full electric....an electric monster...

I hate to be the one to break it to you...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/7/16265888/jaguar-e-type-zero-electric-car-announced

That being said I honestly believe there is a market for someone to produce an electric motor and battery package that takes up the same space as a conventional gasoline motor and fuel tank. That being said there are a lot of people who will lose interest without the sound of a well tuned V8.

Adieu · Nov 13, 2017

NIKwoaC said:
I think years from now when all cars are full electric, we'll look back on cars from this era and mock them. Every day they become increasingly and senselessly more complex and expensive, and the returns on efficiency and emissions are rapidly approaching zero. I'm as much or more a fan of engines that rely on loosely contained petroleum explosions as the next guy, but this horse we're beating has been dead for a while.

I already feel that way about lawn mowers. Went with the 56v EGO electric this year... liked it so much I bought the matching weedeater. NEVER going back to a gas mower again.

Mustang5L5 · Nov 13, 2017

First hybrid Mustang is coming in 2020. Should be interesting to see people start to tinker with those. I actually wouldn't mind seeing an AWD Mustang at this point. Maybe ICE and RWD for sport driving, but in hybrid mode you can have electric motors drive the front wheels.

I'm actually not opposed to electric cars at this point provided they perform more like a Tesla Model S, and less like a Nissan Leaf. Never understood why manufacturers insist on making their eco cars look like fluffy clouds.

My only concern with electrics is that I often vacation to the woods of ME for a week or two and there really isn't the infrastructure there to keep an electric car charged up.

FoxMustangLvr · Nov 13, 2017

cleanLX said:
I accept that is what is coming... even if it does not stir any emotions.
I've never understood electricity... ions and whatnot in a wire making sh!t happen... my brain just does not get it...
Explosions, making a piston go down and a crank go round, now, that I get... even if i don't understand what is that makes the plug go spark, I at least understand explosions...

So, what is the process for recycling the electric batteries of these vehicles, and how are they on the environment?
My guess is we are trading one evil for another... ???

Recycling is toxic too no doubt but what about how toxic is it to our environment for the harvesting of rare minerals that are required for these batteries? To locate, extract, process, and refine rare minerals is filthy. The demand for these minerals are spiking with all the auto manufacturers seeking to replace gas and diesels engines for electric motors. Current prices are going up (naturally) as demand around the world is increasing.

CarMichael Angelo · Nov 13, 2017

JD08 said:
I hate to be the one to break it to you...

https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/7/16265888/jaguar-e-type-zero-electric-car-announced

That being said I honestly believe there is a market for someone to produce an electric motor and battery package that takes up the same space as a conventional gasoline motor and fuel tank. That being said there are a lot of people who will lose interest without the sound of a well tuned V8.

What are you breaking to me? That jag is rekindling the e- type as a full electric?

cleanLX · Nov 13, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
Recycling is toxic too no doubt but what about how toxic is it to our environment for the harvesting of rare minerals that are required for these batteries? To locate, extract, process, and refine rare minerals is filthy. The demand for these minerals are spiking with all the auto manufacturers seeking to replace gas and diesels engines for electric motors. Current prices are going up (naturally) as demand around the world is increasing.

and then... on top of that... electricity production...
Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Raping, polluting and... uranium-235 about 700 million years... and where are we bulldozing that? Hopefully not under my tomato plants.
Keep in mind, the more electric cars, the more electric production will be required.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul, all while raping and severely toxifying the land (batteries, uranium)...

Ryuk · Nov 13, 2017

madmike1157 said:
What are you breaking to me? That jag is rekindling the e- type as a full electric?

Just that you wouldn't be the first.to electrify a hobby car. This is the interesting part of the article:

As it stands, this is simply a retrofit of an electric car into the shell of an old school classic, and Jaguar isn’t being terribly explicit about either pricing or availability. It seems to be more than a concept, but not much more than that. Tim Hannig, chief of Jaguar Land Rover Classic, says that the company’s “aim with the E-type Zero is to future-proof classic car ownership.

Actually, it seems like a good business model for them. It reinforces the brand and lets them make as much money retrofitting as they probably did selling it new.

I also heard there was an S10 running ridiculous times with an electric motor at Palm Beach International Raceway during test and tune, but I never saw it myself.

FoxMustangLvr · Nov 13, 2017

cleanLX said:
and then... on top of that... electricity production...
Natural gas = 33.8%
Coal = 30.4%
Nuclear = 19.7%
Raping, polluting and... uranium-235 about 700 million years... and where are we bulldozing that? Hopefully not under my tomato plants.
Keep in mind, the more electric cars, the more electric production will be required.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul, all while raping and severely toxifying the land (batteries, uranium)...

The DRC, Democratic Repulic of Congo (Africa), produces about 65% of the worlds Cobalt and uses a lot of children in their Artisanal mining operations. As young as 7 years old. Isn't that great?

imp · Nov 13, 2017

Steel1 said:
I was inspecting a car for Mercedes Financial that had the start stop feature. The person in possession of the car was the son of the original elderly owner.
He was unaware of the start-stop feature, he was telling me when he came to a stop for the first time and the car shut off he was in a panic trying to restart the vehicle.
Obviously as this technology becomes more prevalent issues like that shouldn't happen, but I would imagine there's going to be some mechanical growing pains.
Most likely at some point there will be a component that has a manufacturing defect causing issues/ recall.
Now if that component is in your nav system or seat heater it's inconvenient but usually not dangerous. If it's is in the system that stops/starts your vehicle automatically...could be dangerous.
Look at the Takata airbag situation...fantastic life saving technology that has been around for years, but a manufacturing defect has caused a dangerous situation.
But what do I know, just an opinion.

The Takata deal involves an estimated 40 MILLION vehicles. My nephew currently has a loaner while his Nissan Versa will sit at the dealer until estimated fix date in MARCH! imp

imp · Nov 13, 2017

madmike1157 said:
Huh,...still riding in the slow lane on the " back in my day" express, eh imp?
Take yourself to a new car dealership and sample it for yourself then. The technology is already over 10 years old in German cars. It's just now catching up to domestics because of a gvt. mandate on emissions and fuel economy.
That's ten years of getting it right...No commercials on morning TV from ambulance chasers with intro' s that sound like:
"If you have a car with auto start stop, and you were mangled by a Mack truck when it didn't start again, ( cause it was rainy/misty/or just excessively humid) Call the law offices of Goldberg and Kanoph now!"
The electronic circuitry you're talking about is in the ECU, and they're typically inside the car. If any water is getting in there, you might be driving a submarine.

Did you ever hit a big deep puddle of water when you had an ignition distributor, and the engine stalled, and would not re-start? I did. On a hunch, I raised the distributor cap off, and steam from water hitting hot manifolds had condensed INSIDE of the cap, making all sparks easily ground out to the distributor base. Wiped out dry, started up right away. THAT'S the kind of situation I referred to UNDERHOOD, not the ECU. imp

imp · Nov 13, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
The DRC, Democratic Repulic of Congo (Africa), produces about 65% of the worlds Cobalt and uses a lot of children in their Artisanal mining operations. As young as 7 years old. Isn't that great?

It's quite true that controlled nuclear power produces radioactive waste products, many of which are exceedingly toxic and have very long lives, but they never consist of Uranium; it's far to valuable to be buried back in the ground, especially U-235.

Cobalt is an important ingredient in high-strength alloys, but not the Cobalt-60 variety which is highly radioactive and rarely found in nature, I don't believe. Cobalt-60 was used in Radiotherapy treatment, but I think has become mostly obsolete for that purpose.

Search "Therac-25" if you'd like to see a few things almost guaranteed to frighten you. imp

CarMichael Angelo · Nov 13, 2017

imp said:
Did you ever hit a big deep puddle of water when you had an ignition distributor, and the engine stalled, and would not re-start? I did. On a hunch, I raised the distributor cap off, and steam from water hitting hot manifolds had condensed INSIDE of the cap, making all sparks easily ground out to the distributor base. Wiped out dry, started up right away. THAT'S the kind of situation I referred to UNDERHOOD, not the ECU. imp

Yeah that'd be relevant except that the new cars we're talking about don't have distributors either imp...One more old tech that hasn't been seen in any new car for at least 10 years probably closer to 20. Direct ignition, either through a coil pack, or a coil directly attached to the plug is how it's done now days.
All of the engines' control is all part of one big brain......( or several smaller ones) ....Safely tucked away, out of the path of water coming off of your tires as you slog through big deep water puddles .......located......(you guessed it.)..inside the car.
So,.......the kind of situation you were referring to...( water getting into a distributor cap) won't affect the auto start/stop feature you were concerned about,..because there are no faulty distributors to get wet anymore.

Now,.......Go out and buy yourself a BMW...you've got some puddle jumpin to do.

FoxMustangLvr · Nov 14, 2017

madmike1157 said:
Yeah that'd be relevant except that the new cars we're talking about don't have distributors either imp...One more old tech that hasn't been seen in any new car for at least 10 years probably closer to 20. Direct ignition, either through a coil pack, or a coil directly attached to the plug is how it's done now days.
All of the engines' control is all part of one big brain......( or several smaller ones) ....Safely tucked away, out of the path of water coming off of your tires as you slog through big deep water puddles .......located......(you guessed it.)..inside the car.
So,.......the kind of situation you were referring to...( water getting into a distributor cap) won't affect the auto start/stop feature you were concerned about,..because there are no faulty distributors to get wet anymore.

Now,.......Go out and buy yourself a BMW...you've got some puddle jumpin to do.

I do not think @imp is concerned about a "distributor" on a brand new car. I believe his point is that automotive engineers often make mistakes and just because it's on the car doesn't mean it's going to work correctly in mass production for hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Even today there are recalls which are directly linked to safety concerns and people have died due to them. For every recall there are probably hundreds of TSB's for poorly engineered or poorly manufactured parts which don't fall in the safety category but it makes for unreliable vehicles or, like my 3v F-150, a heck of a time R&R'ing my spark plugs. Major auto manufactures put a lot of time and money into R&D but ultimately it's the hoards of consumers of brand new products that are the true guinea pigs that expose the flaws in new automotive technology.

On another note I wonder how this start/stop technology will do in -20* weather. It gets very cold where I live and it's very hard on electrical and batteries. So If I was to park an electric car in my driveway during winter I wonder if it will work first thing in the morning? How much of the charge would be compromised?

CarMichael Angelo · Nov 14, 2017

FoxMustangLvr said:
I do not think @imp is concerned about a "distributor" on a brand new car. I believe his point is that automotive engineers often make mistakes and just because it's on the car doesn't mean it's going to work correctly in mass production for hundreds of thousands of vehicles. Even today there are recalls which are directly linked to safety concerns and people have died due to them. For every recall there are probably hundreds of TSB's for poorly engineered or poorly manufactured parts which don't fall in the safety category but it makes for unreliable vehicles or, like my 3v F-150, a heck of a time R&R'ing my spark plugs. Major auto manufactures put a lot of time and money into R&D but ultimately it's the hoards of consumers of brand new products that are the true guinea pigs that expose the flaws in new automotive technology.

On another note I wonder how this start/stop technology will do in -20* weather. It gets very cold where I live and it's very hard on electrical and batteries. So If I was to park an electric car in my driveway during winter I wonder if it will work first thing in the morning? How much of the charge would be compromised?

Since you're wondering ( specifically to a BMW that I'm familiar with) auto start stop requires three conditions be in place before the process goes into effect.
#1. The car has to have reached operating temp.
#2. The interior has to have reached its set climate temp.
#3. The car has to sit for 3 seconds after coming to a complete stop.

imp · Nov 14, 2017

madmike1157 said:
Yeah that'd be relevant except that the new cars we're talking about don't have distributors either imp...One more old tech that hasn't been seen in any new car for at least 10 years probably closer to 20. Direct ignition, either through a coil pack, or a coil directly attached to the plug is how it's done now days.
All of the engines' control is all part of one big brain......( or several smaller ones) ....Safely tucked away, out of the path of water coming off of your tires as you slog through big deep water puddles .......located......(you guessed it.)..inside the car.
So,.......the kind of situation you were referring to...( water getting into a distributor cap) won't affect the auto start/stop feature you were concerned about,..because there are no faulty distributors to get wet anymore.

Now,.......Go out and buy yourself a BMW...you've got some puddle jumpin to do.

Sure, I know about distributorless ignition, and I love it! Those coil packs, even coil-overs, could easily get shot-up with water and if only temporarily, since everything's hot, prevent a quick restart. Road-water is highly electrically-conducting stuff, has basically very low resistance to current flow, compared to trying to jump the plug gap, especially against compression pressure. The fuel/air mixture in the cylinder is also a fair insulator against current flow, maybe try spraying your garden hose on your coil pack, see what happens, settle the damned debate! imp

General karthief · Nov 14, 2017

First off you are over thinking again. Or is it not thinking? I'm not a well educated mechanic, but I did stay at a holiday inn express once and I noticed that the newer cars and trucks have panels under the front part of the engine from the bumper back to at least the oil pan along with tighter and well covered core supports that direct air in all the right directions so I feel water/moisture intrusion is minimal. Sure technology is great and also has its headaches, in the 60's you could train a monkey to fix a car, now you need a very well educated monkey.
Stop compairing 60's tech with now, you will not win.

Adieu · Nov 15, 2017

imp said:
...maybe try spraying your garden hose on your coil pack, see what happens, settle the damned debate! imp

Did that Sunday when I washed the F150, nothing happened.

Every dealership I've turned wrenches for has had detailers pressure wash the engine of their used cars, 999 times out of 1000, nothing happens.

90sickfox · Nov 15, 2017

Just remember....there's a lobby in Washington.....trying to make the cars we love illegal to drive on public roads. As " safety " technology advances, they can't have unsafe vehicles getting in the way of our super safe, highly technical, ultra low emissions, and airbag enclosed vehicles.

They really are pushing to make all vehicles over 20 years old unsafe and illegal to drive on highways.

H Pattern Is A Thing Of The Past?

cleanLX

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

Ryuk

I love your drawers

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

cleanLX

Ryuk

I love your drawers

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

imp

Mustang Master

imp

Mustang Master

imp

Mustang Master

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

FoxMustangLvr

I love my Pimp

CarMichael Angelo

my rearend will smell so minty fresh,

imp

Mustang Master

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair

Adieu

Easy there, this ain't a dating site.

90sickfox

Wasn't a pretty sight...and I've got big hands

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