Had My Timing Retarded Again!

final5-0 said:

No

Grady

Click to expand...

couldn't a very late spark cause the fuel to not burn, making the sensors report rich, causing the computer to pull fuel?

final5-0 said:

No

Grady

Click to expand...

No you can't confirm, or no the computer does not compensate?

BTW, keep in mind with this discussion of timing that the computer dynamically adjusts timing based on sensor inputs, but only while the car is operating in closed loop. Once you hammer the throttle (WOT), the car reverts to open loop and uses preprogrammed fuel and advance curves (which are generally richer than in closed loop). I think that description is basically on, but maybe the computer gurus can clarify if I mucked it up too much.

BlackVert said:

couldn't a very late spark cause the fuel to not burn, making the sensors report rich, causing the computer to pull fuel?

Click to expand...

Yes Chris

I agree the pcm will use its adaptive strategy to change pulse widths in an effort to find 14.7 to 1.00

And the spark does jump around a good bit at idle with the spout connected.
however
If you pull the spout, the value you see should be the same as it was the last time you set it.

EDIT *** LOL part 2 *** since I re-read Matt's post

I somehow thought Matt was finding his spark was a lower value than the last time he checked it ... it was way too late for me when I posted last night.

Your original question does seem to have some merit. I really don't know the answer to it but your reasoning does make sense to me, lol.

As we've talked about the ping thing so many times before on our site, I won't go into a lot of detail in this post.

however

Considering that Ford delivers the GT with spark so high and fuel so low ..................

Some GT's have never been able to be totally ping free. The GT file just sucks IMHO cause it is on the ragged edge even when everything is within values. The least little thing starts to slip and you take a quick trip to ping city.

The fact that Matt found his spark value at 0 tells us something don't you think?

I remember when I was running the GT cal file, I could mat the skinny pedal from a cruise condition and see my wb go to 20 to 1.00 (it won't read any leaner) for several data events in my datalogs.

Excluding pcm value adjustments

1) More fuel
2) Less spark
3) Do both 1 & 2
4) Up the Octane

The above 4 methods have been the basic weapons peeps have used for years to kill the ping thing.

Grady

Yes, but what I was asking was if over time if the computer would adjust to the timing being set at 0*, changing spark, fuel, etc. If it did, when set back to 10*, the readings would be off, via the computer.

But, I'm guessing the answer was "no"?

GRGT1994 said:

No you can't confirm, or no the computer does not compensate?

BTW, keep in mind with this discussion of timing that the computer dynamically adjusts timing based on sensor inputs, but only while the car is operating in closed loop. Once you hammer the throttle (WOT), the car reverts to open loop and uses preprogrammed fuel and advance curves (which are generally richer than in closed loop). I think that description is basically on, but maybe the computer gurus can clarify if I mucked it up too much.

Click to expand...

If you look at my reply to Chris's post, you'll see I was a bit confused late last night. Sorry for the confusion.

Yes I can confirm!
and
Yes the pcm can compensate for different conditions with it's spark values!

Load, ACT Temps, ECT's and the like are used by the pcm to make spark value adjustments during CL driving conditions.

You did not muck up anything IMHO ... your basic reasoning seems to be right on ...... if you ask me.

Grady

Kevin R. said:

Yes, but what I was asking was if over time if the computer would adjust to the timing being set at 0*, changing spark, fuel, etc. If it did, when set back to 10*, the readings would be off, via the computer.

But, I'm guessing the answer was "no"?

Click to expand...

Kevin

If you set the spark at 7 with the spout out

and

Several weeks or months later you take the spout out and check it again

You should see 7 ... just as before ... when you set it.

Grady

Matt the stock motocraft plug for our cars is ASF-42C the ASF-32c would be a colder plug to cold for your application imo. Have you pulled the plug to see what they're telling you?

final5-0 said:

Kevin

If you set the spark at 7 with the spout out

and

Several weeks or months later you take the spout out and check it again

You should see 7 ... just as before ... when you set it.

Grady

Click to expand...

Ya I know this. I'm not sure what I was trying to ask.

Seems I was a bit "lost" last night as well.

..Have either of you double checked to make sure that @ TDC the rotor is on the #1 cyclinder according to the cap? ...somone coulda messed witht he dist at some point. if its not at #1 @ TDC you need to pull the distrb, and make sure it does.

and deff try 93 oct at 10*

Kuntry, the dizzy being mis-stabbed (or a tooth off) is a bit of a misnomer.

misnomer??? ...sorry, im 'retarded' ... watcha mean.

xkuntrycowboyx said:

misnomer??? ...sorry, im 'retarded' ... watcha mean.

Click to expand...

The dizzy being "one tooth off" is one of those things that seems to get some peeps all upset

This is one of those things that ..................
it all depends upon how you look at it

To me, the simple way to look at this issue is from a reference of how is the dizzy is positioned when you have the ability of maximum adjustment in both directions.

I can assure you, that is the way it was installed when you got the car from Ford.

Say you pull the dizzy for whatever reason and realize you are not sure how to get it back exactaly as it was before.

Say you got it back in one tooth off in either direction ..................
It ain't gonna start or if it does ..................
Its gonna run bad

IF, and I repeat IF, you can twist the dizzy far enough in the direction it needs to go .........................
you will be able to find the correct spark value for perfect time.

Now ... Having said that ... Those who say the one tooth off thing is a bunch of poop have been proven correct

however (seems to always one of these in my posts)

Two things to think about if that happens

1) What if something is preventing enough twist of the dizzy ......
you are gonna have to move it ...... one tooth

2) Your plug wires are gonna be streached more in one direction and its possible things around the dizzy such as fuel lines, wires, v hoses and the like may be not as you wish ..................

Simply Because

The dizzy is one tooth off from how it was before you hosed around with things

Botom Line & my View Point in this issue ...........

Neither Camps of Peeps are Right or Wrong :SNSign:

Grady