Had My Timing Retarded Again!

[DFG 5OH]

Well I've been having spark-knocking problems since i got my timing on my car fixed. When i got it, it was set around 0*, obviously the previous owner didnt know what he was doing and had the timing all ****ed up. I got it set to 10* (stock) and it had about 500 more HP, but pinged so bad it sounded like gravel in the cylinders. So i had it backed down to 8* and drove it like that on 89 octane gas for a while. I started noticing it pinging bad again, so today i had it turned down to 5*. I know the car isnt running up to full potential, and i would like to figure out why its pinging and fix it, so i can run at least 10* timing, and gain back the power i lost. So, what could be causing me engine to ping. Engine is stock, except for an MSD Cap/Rotor, some exhaust work, and FMS wires. The plugs are pretty new, motorcraft plugs, other than that all other is stock.

BTW the other day it was warmer outside, which caused it to ping worse, and when i got on it, and it would ping real bad, it would puff some smoke...

 

[bill302]

is check engine light on? if it is or if it is'nt on, attempt to pull check engine codes and post results autozone does it free.

 

[94Blue302GT]

lol, you're retarded....
Well, don't let it puff smoke, pinging is really bad.
Check you're fuel. If you have an aftermarket fpr, make sure it's at the correct pressure. you can pick up a bbk or something and then a guageto monitor it. Search around for the proper settings.

 

[DFG 5OH]

i had it looked at when the siming was set up a while back, no codes, fuel was perfect, maf is good...i'm really lost

 

[urban96]

run better gas, also try running some seafoam threw the fuel system and suck some into a VAC line to clean the intake a bit

 

[94Blue302GT]

maybe the sensor on the distributor? The PIP i believe it's called. If you get a haynes or something, you can check to see if it's good or not.

 

[DFG 5OH]

i have seafoamed the engine/oil/gas already. I've tried all octanes of gas it pings at 87, 89, but not with 93 but it has NO power with 93 octane.

That PIP sensor is hard to replace, that would have to be a last resort.

 

[bill302]

is this the exact plug your using gapped at .052-.058

Motorcraft ASF-32C F4 spark plugs

 

[DFG 5OH]

is this the exact plug your using gapped at .052-.058

Motorcraft ASF-32C F4 spark plugs

yes

 

[BlackVert]

you are either gettng too much air or not enough fuel. so:

when was the last time you replaced the fuel filter?

do you have low fuel pressure?

is there a vacuum leak? carb cleaner spray at idle test? those tubes up under the intake can crack or come loose after 11+ years.

how many miles on the motor? carbon build up can decrease the combustion chamber size causing higer compression making it more susceptable to pre-ignition.

 

[Kevin R.]

Funny Matt, I have had the EXACT same problem.

When I checked my timing, it was at 0*.

I bumped it up to 10*, and experienced pinging, very badly at WOT. I have ran better gas, but didn't work.

I put the timing around 8* as you did, and it still pings, not as badly, but at times.

I am wondering if running it at 0* for all those years made it so I cannot run it at anything but that? It is odd, and not worth messing up my engine over.

 

[BlackVert]

good point. the computer may have adjusted for the timing being set so low. try setting it back to 10* and disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes. that will reset the computer so it will start learning again. then drive it around gently for a while to let it learn about your car before hammering it.

keep up posted

 

[DFG 5OH]

thats not a bad idea

 

[GRGT1994]

What would happen if someone had replaced a timing chain and was off a tooth, or the crank was just off TDC when installing the timing chain?

My guess is that your actual timing would be off of the indicated timing on your balancer. In that case, maybe an indicated timing of 0 is actually 12 to 16, and an indicated timing of 10 is over 20. Maybe that's what happened to you.

Don't know if my figures are anywhere in the ball park. But you get the idea. Anyway, just a thought.

 

[95cobraguy]

u said it doesn't ping on 93 octane but has no power, why dont u run 93 octane and set the timing at 10 instead of 8. r u pulling out the spout connector when u set the timing?

 

[warpd]

yea try bumping the timing and running 93, I would think the loss in power with higher octane fuel would be because it is more resistant to igniting and with real low timing maybe the engine is having problems igniting the mixture.

 

[Kevin R.]

good point. the computer may have adjusted for the timing being set so low. try setting it back to 10* and disconnecting the battery for 30 minutes. that will reset the computer so it will start learning again. then drive it around gently for a while to let it learn about your car before hammering it.

keep up posted

Nice idea, I will definately have to try that!

Gotta start somewhere...

 

[Kevin R.]

Also, does anyone know for sure if the computer can compensate over time for this?

Does it actually adjust to timing fluxuations? If so, what would be the point of the timing?

Are other engine functions besides ignition and the obvious timing effected?

I'm just having trouble seeing what the computer would compensate for. And if it did, then the timing would be pointless because the computer would adjust no matter what it was at...

 

[jorge.pena]

If I remember right the computer will try to adjust timing because the oxygen sensors tell it the stuff coming out the pipes (exhaust) isn't right. But I don't know if it would actually get stuck there after a while. Have you run diagnostics on all your sensors, something like a bad throttle position sensor can really gum up the works . And to answer Kevins question, the point of timing is this. Those 10 degrees that everybody talks about is normally reffered to as base timing, and it is basically your timing at idle. This is a mechanical adjustment between distributor and piston (or crank) position, thats why you disconnect the spout so the computer won't interfere while you're trying to set it. 10 degrees means your distributor fires it's spark at 10 deg.before TDC, by the time the spark gets to the plug and the mix starts to burn the piston is at TDC (roughly). your timing does not stay the same all the time, when the engine starts revving up, the computer advances your timing accordingly, the higher the RPM the more advanced the timing. In non computer cars the timing is advanced via a vacuum controlled advance or a centrifugal one. This is done because the higher the RPM the faster everything moves (pistons are our main concern) but the gas air mixture burns at basically the same speed, and to compensate for that you have to fire the mix sooner.
Hope that helps.

 

[final5-0]

Also, does anyone know for sure if the computer can compensate over time for this?

No

Grady