Handguns...

zZsKyZz · Apr 23, 2006

I just turned 20 yesterday and I'm interested in buying a handgun. Not to carry around or go hunting with, just to keep at home for protection. I know once I turn 21 I'm able to apply for a permit to carry it around, but I'm just concerned with purchasing one. I'm going to be leaving for college in september [I'm transfering] and with my dad at work during the day I'd feel better knowing that my mother and sister knew where the gun was in case of an emergency, not only that, but I'd also feel safer.

Now for my questions:
1. Does anyone know of the laws and regulations of handguns in PA?
2. I don't want to spend a fortune on a gun. I'm looking for a nice looking gun, semi-automatic, not a revolver, and something that works for between $200-$400. Any suggestions?

Also, is there anything else I should know? I'm guessing some of you here must own guns. Thanks.

Black95GTS · Apr 23, 2006

zZsKyZz said:
I just turned 20 yesterday and I'm interested in buying a handgun. Not to carry around or go hunting with, just to keep at home for protection. I know once I turn 21 I'm able to apply for a permit to carry it around, but I'm just concerned with purchasing one. I'm going to be leaving for college in september [I'm transfering] and with my dad at work during the day I'd feel better knowing that my mother and sister knew where the gun was in case of an emergency, not only that, but I'd also feel safer.

Now for my questions:
1. Does anyone know of the laws and regulations of handguns in PA?
2. I don't want to spend a fortune on a gun. I'm looking for a nice looking gun, semi-automatic, not a revolver, and something that works for between $200-$400. Any suggestions?

Also, is there anything else I should know? I'm guessing some of you here must own guns. Thanks.

k, this is LONG, but you asked for it!

1 - I can only speak for MA... To get a handgun you need a license to carry class B at the minimum. Which means you need to attend hunter class, and have a perfectly clear record. If you've been fingerprinted in the past, then you probly won't get one.

2 - I'd recommend something in .357 magnum. It's the smallest round that I would use for home protection. There are a plethora of choices, but commonly a home protection piece would be a .357 double action revolver, or a .38 special double action revolver. Cheap(er), easy to use, and reliable. A lot of government agencies are moving away from 9mm to SIG .357 loads because of higher stopping power.

3 - Having a gun in the house with people that don't regularly practice with it is a bad idea. If your family doesn't use the gun with some frequency then they won't be able to use it in an emergency. Having any kind of firearm in the home requires frequent training and practice. When I purchased my shotgun, the first thing I did was get everyone together and show them how to clean and safe the gun, and load it. As soon as the weather gets nice we're all going to the range for practice. Granted, I only have waterfowl and turkey loads, but you get the point. Until your family gets comfortable handling the firearm then leaving it for home protection could hurt more then help.

4 - If you're going to get a firearm for home protection, I think a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun is the perfect choice. First, you get the sound of the gun racking a shell in. Everyone knows what that clack-clack means. It's very intimidating. Secondly, its easy to strike an intruder. Thirdly, you don't have to worry about the shot going through walls killing your neighbor walking out of his house. Fourthly, a pump action shotgun is very reliable. Mossberg makes a lot of different models in the 300 dollar range.

Adam

wytstang · Apr 23, 2006

Definatly get training for the folk on proper care and use. Depending on there size a shot gun may not be doable (although I agree the clack-clack means get out ASAP biotch) a small 22 may be easier for them to shot accuaratly(sp?) (easy for small hands to grasp).

SWYZ721 · Apr 23, 2006

what about carrying a gun?

The only thing is, if you are carrying the gun for protection (which means you want no harm) then most likely you are going to pull it out and aim it, however this will result in either the person running away (good) or pulling out a gun and blowing you away (not so good).

I mean, I just feel that if I carried a gun, I would use it as a deterrent, which means if I happen to pull a gun on someone who has one too, they will pull out and I will be shot.

I'm so in the air about the gun thing.

I mean, anyone who says they are trying to protect their house is (most of the time) kidding themselves; if you've ever been to another country, the US is the safer than ANYWHERE, again ANYWHERE. My father grew up in south america, in a house with no door, he used to let me stay out as late as I wanted to when I was 12 years old because of how safe this country is, and he's a god-damned doctor! Don't get me wrong, **** happens, especially when the city you live in has more murders and a higher crime rate per capita than detroit, the even call it the little-D, it's like 30 min from detroit. But don't act like this is some cut-throat vigilante marshall law country, we as Americans are so god-damned soft.

The point is, I can understand carrying a weapon on you. But I can't understand getting a gun for "protecting the house".

Besides, the way it seems, if you do shoot the muthafuucker you better kill him or else you're getting sued, I don't even understand how/why that is possible.

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to hash this out personally in my head, and when I read other people's opinions and put my own in typeset, I see them a little better.

Black95GTS · Apr 23, 2006

wytstang said:
Definatly get training for the folk on proper care and use. Depending on there size a shot gun may not be doable (although I agree the clack-clack means get out ASAP biotch) a small 22 may be easier for them to shot accuaratly(sp?) (easy for small hands to grasp).

I think that while everyone that shoots should own a 22 pistol and rifle for target practice, it makes a poor self defense choice. It has little to no stopping power. If you've ever seen a 22 bullet, its the size of an extra strength tylenol.

You want something that is hollow point with 125 grain plus bullet size.

SWYZ721 - I don't think you've ever lived in the poorer sections of a city. I lived in a pretty rough section of worcester for 3 years in college... crime does happen.

And the first thing they tell you in training, is if you happen to open fire on an intruder, you shoot to kill. Empty the magazine. This country is so over-lawyered that YOU can go to jail for shooting someone breaking into YOUR OWN home. IMO, if someone threatens the lives of me and my own, and I do nothing, then my character is weak. Whether it be with a gun, knife, or my own two hands.

A republican is a democrat who's been mugged once. - PJ O'Rourke

Adam

Guero · Apr 23, 2006

guns are cool!!!!!!!!!!!! lol in az you just need to buy, and you can carry it. but if you want to conceal it, you need a permit. best gun for yourmoney would be the S&W Sigma. its a copy cat of the glock, but the trigger pull is kinda hard. but it has never jammed on me. not even with cheap bullets, and i haven't cleaned it for the last 1000 rounds. just to see when it will jam.

Yobi1Kanobi · Apr 23, 2006

I own a 454 CASSUL Taurus not exactly user friendly for home protection see the thing is you end up shooting the robber and it keep going through the wall into your nieghbors house.

But I sleep with a 38 special next to my bed thats more of a home protection weapon revolvers are a good choice being they are reliable and you tend to forget to maintain it as well as you should.

Guero · Apr 23, 2006

yobi1kanobi said:
I own a 454 CASSUL Taurus not exactly user friendly for home protection see the thing is you end up shooting the robber and it keep going through the wall into your nieghbors house.

thtas funny

nickm347 · Apr 23, 2006

get a 1911 Colt. Its got plenty of stopping power. Its .45 cal, 7 bullets in the clip and 1 in the chamber. Get youself some hollowpoint ammunition and you will be set for self defense. Just make sure you take a handgun saftey/self defense class so u know how to use it, clean it, and all that. Some target ranges or gun stores will teach/train you.

nickm347 · Apr 23, 2006

oh yeah, they were the standard issue side arm for us army soldiers from 1911 to 1985, so im sure there are plenty out there(not sure what the gov does with them)...im not sure on the price though

Guero · Apr 24, 2006

pretty pricey. ive seen new ones at around 1000 bucks. i dont think he would like a gun that expensive

Swarzkopf · Apr 24, 2006

Yargh...Massachusetss ****ing sucks.

I'm from PA and own over 30 guns. Here's the deal for PA:

1. You can't buy a handgun. You must be 21. Sorry dude.

2. When you're 21, you need NO PERMIT to buy a handgun. Go to a store, pick the one you want. They'll then run a background check on your (costs like $2) and as long as you don't have a felonious criminal record, a record of violent crime or drug charges, or have ever been committed to an asylum you will buy your gun and walk out with it that day.

3. To get a license to carry, you go to your local Sheriff's office, fill out an application, they run a background check on you, and ask you why you want it. As long as you don't have a felonious criminal record, record of violent crime, drug record, or have ever been committed to an asylum they'll ask you for $17 and take your picture. Then they'll print a License to Carry, good for five years, and give it to you. The whole process took me less than 1/2 and hour.

4. As far as "laws and regulations of handguns", the laws are very lenient as to what you can own. You are not allowed to fix a rifle style stock to a handgun. You are not allowed to fix a rifle style forward grip to a hangun. You are not allowed to buy a fully automatic handgun without going through the NFA process. Otherwise, anything goes.

5. For home protection, a 18.5" barrel 12 GA shotgun works way better than your average handgun. Load it with #6 or #8 game shot and at in home distances you'll have a 2-3" spread which is highly lethal, more likely to hit your your target, and less likely to penetrate through walls. You can get a used 12 GA like this for $200. The Mossberg 500 is a popular choice.

6. When you turn 21 and buy a hangun, if you are SET on buying a semi-auto (I prefer revolvers for defense for most folks, but whatever), and you want to spend $200-$400, buy a used Glock. Glocks are utterly reliable, accurate, tough, and relatively cheap.

7. 9mm is fine. 9mm is plenty powerful for defense if you know how to shoot. Futhermore, 9mm is DIRT cheap and with the money you save, you'll be able to afford to practice much more than you would with a .40 or .45. Practice is CRITICAL for proper use of a handgun...if you don't practice or can't afford to practice, you might as well not even have one.

So in short:

Buy a shotgun now.
Next year buy a 9mm Glock.
Practice alot with it.
Get your license to carry as it's cheap and easy.

Good luck!

gustang818 · Apr 24, 2006

Start here:

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/PSP/Lib/psp/PDF/FIREARM_BROCHURE.pdf

You also should talk to a reputable gun dealer and discuss your wants and needs. If yopu've never owned a gun before, you may want to take a class on gun ownership to let you know your responsibilities and liabilities.

Remember that it is the rare case where a gun kept for protection is actually used that way and more often it is an owner/family member that is hurt/killed by it. If someone is breaking into your house you should call 911 and retreat (I know, the guys from Texas won't go for that). That adrenalin release peoople suffer when placed in that situation makes most people useless for protecting themselves. Police and military personnel undergo rigorous training to learn how to deal with that.

If it's protection around the house you want, my vote is for a shotgun. With a 12 ga. loaded with Double 00 Buck, you're tossing 13 quarter-inch pieces of lead at your target with each shot. Even if it's Mom and Sis using light loads (like AA Target), they could sting an assailant to the point he would back off. In a home invasion situation, you're talking close quarters and the point and shoot nature of a shotgun can't be beat.

For an automatic handgun, I would go with a 10mm S&W load. It has more stopping power than a 9mm. Once again, talk to your gun dealer.

zZsKyZz · Apr 24, 2006

Swarzkopf said:
Yargh...Massachusetss ****ing sucks.

I'm from PA and own over 30 guns. Here's the deal for PA:

1. You can't buy a handgun. You must be 21. Sorry dude.

2. When you're 21, you need NO PERMIT to buy a handgun. Go to a store, pick the one you want. They'll then run a background check on your (costs like $2) and as long as you don't have a felonious criminal record, a record of violent crime or drug charges, or have ever been committed to an asylum you will buy your gun and walk out with it that day.

3. To get a license to carry, you go to your local Sheriff's office, fill out an application, they run a background check on you, and ask you why you want it. As long as you don't have a felonious criminal record, record of violent crime, drug record, or have ever been committed to an asylum they'll ask you for $17 and take your picture. Then they'll print a License to Carry, good for five years, and give it to you. The whole process took me less than 1/2 and hour.

4. As far as "laws and regulations of handguns", the laws are very lenient as to what you can own. You are not allowed to fix a rifle style stock to a handgun. You are not allowed to fix a rifle style forward grip to a hangun. You are not allowed to buy a fully automatic handgun without going through the NFA process. Otherwise, anything goes.

5. For home protection, a 18.5" barrel 12 GA shotgun works way better than your average handgun. Load it with #6 or #8 game shot and at in home distances you'll have a 2-3" spread which is highly lethal, more likely to hit your your target, and less likely to penetrate through walls. You can get a used 12 GA like this for $200. The Mossberg 500 is a popular choice.

6. When you turn 21 and buy a hangun, if you are SET on buying a semi-auto (I prefer revolvers for defense for most folks, but whatever), and you want to spend $200-$400, buy a used Glock. Glocks are utterly reliable, accurate, tough, and relatively cheap.

7. 9mm is fine. 9mm is plenty powerful for defense if you know how to shoot. Futhermore, 9mm is DIRT cheap and with the money you save, you'll be able to afford to practice much more than you would with a .40 or .45. Practice is CRITICAL for proper use of a handgun...if you don't practice or can't afford to practice, you might as well not even have one.

So in short:

Buy a shotgun now.
Next year buy a 9mm Glock.
Practice alot with it.
Get your license to carry as it's cheap and easy.

Good luck!

I was told that I need to be 21 to carry a handgun.. I thought you could buy one at 18?

Swarzkopf · Apr 24, 2006

Nope, 21.

Start here:

http://www.psp.state.pa.us/PSP/Lib/p...M_BROCHURE.pdf

You also should talk to a reputable gun dealer and discuss your wants and needs. If yopu've never owned a gun before, you may want to take a class on gun ownership to let you know your responsibilities and liabilities.

Remember that it is the rare case where a gun kept for protection is actually used that way and more often it is an owner/family member that is hurt/killed by it.

BS. Come on...

That stat comes from the large percentage of folks who go to the gun store, buy a gun, drive home and blow their brains out.

Those that own a gun for self defense ARE not likely to have used against them. It's a misrepresentation of statistics perpetuated by the anti-gun lobby and nothing more.

If someone is breaking into your house you should call 911 and retreat.

Retreat where? Your bedroom? What happens when they want in there? Should you retreat out the window?

That adrenalin release peoople suffer when placed in that situation makes most people useless for protecting themselves. Police and military personnel undergo rigorous training to learn how to deal with that.

ROFL

Yeah, all the cops I know have undergone real "rigorous" training...

If it's protection around the house you want, my vote is for a shotgun. With a 12 ga. loaded with Double 00 Buck, you're tossing 13 quarter-inch pieces of lead at your target with each shot. Even if it's Mom and Sis using light loads (like AA Target), they could sting an assailant to the point he would back off. In a home invasion situation, you're talking close quarters and the point and shoot nature of a shotgun can't be beat.

Totally agree.

For an automatic handgun, I would go with a 10mm S&W load.

Dude, recommending a 10mm to a first time handgunner is like recommending a Ferrari Enzo as a first car for a teenager...10mm is great, for someone with some experience. Furthermore, the cost of 10mm is pretty prohibitive. 9mm is a great first gun caliber.

zZsKyZz · Apr 24, 2006

Swarzkopf - So what type of handgun would you suggest? I'm currently looking at glocks. They seem to be a decent gun.

Swarzkopf · Apr 24, 2006

Yeah, definitely Glock...like I said, for the price they are the best thing going.

If it came to putting my life on the line, I'd trust it to a Glock or Sig before any other type of semi-auto handgun out there.

Get a Glock in 9mm- whichever size you want. I own a Glock 17 and it's the handgun that I take to the range most. Very pleasant gun to shoot.

Swarzkopf · Apr 24, 2006

Oh yeah...gustang818, did you mean 10mm or .40 S&W in your post? I assumed 10mm.

zZsKyZz · Apr 24, 2006

Swarzkopf said:
Yeah, definitely Glock...like I said, for the price they are the best thing going.

If it came to putting my life on the line, I'd trust it to a Glock or Sig before any other type of semi-auto handgun out there.

Get a Glock in 9mm- whichever size you want. I own a Glock 17 and it's the handgun that I take to the range most. Very pleasant gun to shoot.

So is it true that I have to be 21 to carry one but 18 to buy one?

Swarzkopf · Apr 24, 2006

Nope, like I said, you need to be 21 to buy a hangun here in PA.

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