Has anyone seen info on a late model IFS swap into a classic stang?

[jabb]

I've dug around the interwebs a bit and haven't really come up with much. What I'd really like to do is get the coilovers and rack & pinion steering from a SN197 or a Cobra stuck upfront with a nice 8.8" rearend.

Info at any technical level would be quite appreciated. I'm not an automotive engineer so I don't know all that much about the technical side of suspension design, but I am an engineering student and what I don't know I can learn. Thanks again, all help is most welcome.

EDIT: If anyone has some evidence that aftermarket coilover kits and R&P steering are as good/ nearly as good as the new stuff would be then I might settle going that rout too.

 

[rbohm]

the have been fox body front suspensions swapped under the early mustangs, and in the rear dvs restorations has a late model irs swap for the 67-70 cars. and daze cars is putting a jag irs under his 66(?) mustang. check out www.dazecars.com

 

[jabb]

Thanks, but I've seen that information already. I'd like to go newer too. I absolutely loved the SN65 project but thats far too much work and way beyond my skill level. What I'd ideally like is a new (SN95 or newer) front suspension grafted onto the old body and an 8.8" live rear axle.

 

[reenmachine]

You're not finding much info about it on the Google because there's really no good reason to do it. It's a lot of trouble without much return.

You can absolutely do an aftermarket coilover and R&P swap that'll crush the new stuff. Many here will argue, with merit, that you can do better with the best components based on the stock design as well.

There's nothing magic about the new parts. Keep in mind that it's mass-produced stuff designed to perform reasonably well at a minimum cost.

What are you trying to accomplish with the car, and is budget a minor, moderate, or major consideration?

Spend some time searching this forum and you'll learn a tremendous amount. Feel free to ask more questions as well!

 

[jabb]

Thanks for the advice Reen. As my Christmas break just started and I've got some free time I have gotten a little research done. In addition to learning more about suspensions I've found some of the work you've done and all I've got to say is I think you're going to have to be my best friend til I get this project finished lol.

Seriously though, eventual plans involve a supercharged 5.0 "Boss" crate engine from Ford Racing so I don't see a need to loose the shock towers, but I will want to beef up the sheet metal in the engine bay with some tubular steel or the like.

I saw that you've used RRS's Mac strut kit on one of your projects, how satisfied with it are you? I've got a 67 coupe and my goals are to build a very versatile car that will turn heads in the city, perhaps on occasion see some track time, and hold tight on some beautiful Rocky Mountain roads.

I'm not going to say that price is no issue because it is, but I'm not afraid to pay for quality. I plan to keep this car for a long long time and I'm willing to invest some green in it.

 

[66Runt]

Well, if you want to see an 8.8" grafted in, I've done that on the car in my signature (click the link). So have others on this forum.
Like Reen said, you're not seeing much on the front end because people who have the newer Mustangs and want excellent handling, modify the heck out of the suspension... Ergo, Why throw crap up front that has to be modified to work well. And quite frankly due to the track width difference, it's major engineering and surgery to make it fit.
My '66 handles way better than my 90GT. It stops way, way, way freaking better. it turns better, it feels better, and it is way faster through the turns. Now my '66 suspension, chassis and brakes are modified, where the only thing I've done to the Fox so far is H&R S.S. springs, Tokico Illumina adjustable strut/shocks, caster-camber plates, slotted stock discs and green pads... get my drift?
If I could just once push a lateral 0.9G with the Fox, and stop from 60-0 in 140' I'd be damned lucky (more likely lieing). The '66 will do an easy 0.95G lateral (best of 0.99G so far, but with out a roll bar, I don't have the cajones to really push it), and does consistent 60-0 stops under 130' (best of 117' with consecutive hot stops at 122'). Look at the suspension, and except for the R&P it doesn't "appear" far from stock.
As for proof. You can find that for yourself. Go to a Shelby track event. You'll most likely see all the different vintages. Especially if you can get to a National or Mini-nat event.
Check out companies like Grigg's Racing (he does awesome kits for all the different generation Mustangs), Maier Racing, Opentracker Racing Products, Street or Track, TCP, etc. Companies with years of road racing Mustangs. Look at what they offer as top of the line, and compare it to a late model Mustang. The only company I know of doing struts is RRS, I don't know if anyone is racing an RRS equiped car so I can't speak to how it compares on the track. It sure is beautiful craftsmanship though.

Good luck!

********edit
Sorry I didn't see your response to Reen. I'm a slow typer.

 

[jabb]

No worries and thanks for your input too.

 

[reenmachine]

There are tons of interesting choices out there and each pretty much has its place.

I had a good experience with the RRS kit on the blue '68 fastback, and the kits are much nicer now than that one was -- namely, you can adjust ride height independently of spring preload. If you're starting from scratch or have a 6-cylinder car RRS is nice because it comes with brakes and replaces your stock spindle. It also allows you to notch the shock towers for header clearance or additional room for a mod motor or something. Next time I do a mod motor car I'll probably go RRS instead of MII. The kits are very high quality, installation is a snap, and ride & handling are great. They're a bit pricey though, and if you opt for the bigger brake packages things get expensive quick.

I've been into TCP lately and I'm going to go full front & rear TCP on my personal car this year. There's a great thread going on their new-gen triangulated 4-link rear suspension kit here:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=728197

Their front coilover system will run you about $2450, and you can use your existing V8 spindles. That leaves brake choices wide open from mild to wild, depending on your budget. At this point it's a time-proven design and they keep tweaking it for the better. For example, for an extra 60 bucks you get these trick pivot shafts for the upper control arms that eliminate the need to drill new holes in your shock tower to improve the geometry. Basically, compared to stock, the kit gives you adjustable coilovers mounted to the LCA instead of the UCA, stronger arms, solid bind-free pivots, and improved geometry. With the new pivot shaft, installation is 99% bolt in. You have to drill out part of the old upper coil spring mount up inside the shock tower.

There's tons of great info on here about tweaking the stock suspension, from mild improvements to full-on track worthiness. Search "opentracker" and "historic" to learn more.

The Ron Morris Performance "Street Force" kit is really similar to the TCP kit with a few variations on the theme.

The Griggs stuff is probably mathematically perfect, but you sure pay for it. IMO not necessary unless you're building an all-out track car, and even then it's arguable.

Pretty much everything you could want to know and more about MII kits can be found here:

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=720194

Give me a call if you want -- my number's on my website.

 

[stonecoldtx]

I think this might be what you're looking for, or close to it:

http://ajeracing.com/64-70Mustang.php

I considered using this kit, but they don't have these on their shelves--when you order, there is a 6- to 9-week delay before you actually get the parts, and I really didn't have that kind of time to spare on the project I was working on . . . otherwise, IMHO, this would be the ideal setup, because it not only includes the SN95 stuff (spindles, etc., so you can install the 13" Cobra brakes), but also INCLUDES the rack and all associated parts with it.

Compare that to just a R&P conversion kit, and I think you can see the value . . .

 

[mustang6tee8]

DVS Restorations, check out their MIB (Mustang in Black). Grafted the entire drivetrain from a 99 cobra to a 68 fastback. They have everything you could possibly need for IRS swaps. Live axel mounting kit is in the works

www.dvsrestorations.com

 

[jabb]

Thanks for the reading material fellas. After alot of researching I've narrowed it down to the TCP kit and the Ron Morris Street Force kit. I really do like the sound of the del a lum bushing on the Global West Negative Camber kit but I can't justify the extra cost just for those. Any firsthand experience/input with either or preferably both of these would be awesome. They aren't exactly what I was originally looking for, but I've finally realized that Macpherson struts aren't what Im looking for.

I really like the uber adjustability of the TCP but I wonder if its worth the extra cost, and from what I've heard, weight when compared to RM's offerings. Will the adjustable length UCAs do anything that shimming couldn't?
Thanks again.

 

[bnickel]

i much prefer the LCA's and strut rods of the TCP system vs the RM stuff, about the only thing i don't like about the TCP kit is the heim jointed UCA's but that's just me. i think if i could get the TCP kit sans UCA's and substitute the GW UCA's i'd do that but that's probably just me being paranoid since i live in West Texas the world capitol of blowing dirt, that's the only reason i'm somewhat leary about running heim joints on the street.

 

[GOvert]

Jabb, Im working on a design for a bracket that would enable one to install FOX body all the way to SN197 ('79 up) spindle assemblies (front steer R & P appilcation only) on 1964.5 to 1970 Mustangs with stock style Upper Control Arms. I'll let you know how it all works out.