Head and Cam Tech question

[kramer03gt]

Hey Guys, so iam at work, and im pursing mods for the stang, as i do atleast once a day.. .. anyway i was looking around at heads and cams and i was wondering if someone could explain the lagistics of things, such as i understand what they do, but in this case im trying to find a good head and cam combo, and yeah i was dead set on VT for a long time but then i cam acrross these stage 3 heads from Patroit with the following numbers:

Stage III 1020 Superflow Bench 3.552 Bore

Lift
1.84" Intake Valve
1.452" Exhaust Valve

.100
68 cfm
53 cfm

.200
121 cfm
100 cfm

.300
169 cfm
138 cfm

.400
203 cfm
165 cfm

.500
219 cfm
186 cfm

.550
223 cfm
196 cfm

.600
226 cfm
201 cfm



Part #
Description
MSRP

1005
Stage III Bare 1.84"/1.452"
$1,195.00 pair

1006
Stage III Assy 1.84"/1.452"
$1,495.00 pair


Now i still have my eye on the VT stage 2 N/A Cam with these specs

.560/.575 lift, 225/235 .050" duration, 108 LSA

Now could someone just give me a quick run down of what all these numbers mean, and how they pertain to performance and in relation to trying to select a good head and cam combo. As maybe how this head would compare to VT's stage 2 head. I mean i understand the concept of bigger means more flow, but i guess how would this combo work, would it make more sense to get the stage 2 VT heads. And i have heard mixed opionions of Patroit performance, but reading there article with project ice box in MMandFF they look somewhat promising and the price seems to be reasable for an assemled head, now with it being assembled does that mean i get it put the cams in it, bolt it on and im good to go or is there other things im missing and tune obviously.. I know a lame question and whatnot.. but i guess knowing more about what this means will help make that decision when it comes time to buy heads and cams..

As always thanks guys!!! :SNSign:



Steve

 

[kramer03gt]

and now i guess my next question is going to be how to deciede what "stage" heads to get for a DD, or if i plan to do future modding such as blower etc, i dont want to have to replace them again, so say i was looking at getting a blower probably in the next couple of years, along with cams and etc. and eventually with a blower im going to shoot for around 450 HP with a forged bottom end of course, so im sure this gets asked all the time, And also of the major companies such as Fox lake, Patriot, VT, MPH, etc and etc, were does one begin on researching which heads to get and what company to go with??

 

[BooWFO]

1. with the power #'s your looking for ported heads are not a must. It will make it easier but not a must.
2. Patriot gets LOTS of bad press.
3. You really need to know what direction you want to go in for everyone to offer you some good solid advice. example. stg2 vt na cams would work great Na and with nitrous but with a blower it seems hit or miss and my understanding they are lousey with a turbo.
4. Sit back and really price out the car the way you want it. You may find that it is cheaper to go ahead and go forced induction now.

 

[kramer03gt]

which makes sense, ha i do it every day at work, i guess my whole this is longevitiy with the motor while with forced induction, being i do drive my car hard, and they age old debate with the stock motors and blower combo, so i guess i was going to build it up over time, and make it as bullet proof as possible, but i know i want to go forced induction for sure, im still debating on the vt mongoose kit or on of the new KB's, and i figured by adding atleast a forged crank i wouldnt have to worry "as much" about turing up the boost to achieve that 400 plus HP number, and i figure i guess with adding the heads cam, full exhaust it will make it easier to get there with out haveing to crank out huge amounts of boost therefore not putting as much stress on the internals.. would it be a waist of time to just do a forged crank and leave everything else?? or sound retared i should say??

 

[BooWFO]

Just my opinions here for this part.
I believe the stock 2v crank is suitable to the powerlevels you are discussing, PROVIDED you keep the rpm's in a reasonable range. Seems most live well under 6200rpm.
If anything the rods and pistons I would change, they seem to be what goes first.
I also think it's BS that 2v are limited to 400rwhp, with a stock bottomend. I know several that are at that level or beyond and living nice happy lives.

Now I do agree the less boost you have to push to get to the power level you want the better. But my reasoning for that is. more boost means more heat which means less timing... Also more boost to begin with means less grow room.

If I was in your boat the directions I would go.
1. Buy the Mongoose kit first then add to it to get to the power level you want.
OR
2. Full exhaust, VT stg2 blower cams AND springs, which will require a tune. then add the blower...
I'd prolly hold off on the heads just yet there are rumors that the Pi head market is getting ready to get shaken up.

 

[kramer03gt]

cool thanks for the advice!!!, so what kind of rumors are you hearing about the head market?? also i was looking at the vortech mongoose kit, now i noticed they made an aftercooler with that kit as well according to Vortech's website, is that something worth investing in as well to keep the heat down?? Also when you say keep in a resonalble range for the RPM can that all be collaborated with a tune?? i know shift point and stuff can be which the direction i assume your going?? and any good rod and piston combos you can recommend?

 

[steveb24]

man you got some good questions im really wondering myself. i dont know where to go next with my stang, and stuff cost soo much money.

btw, what do you guys think about sg 2 vs stg 3 heads as far as a daily driver goes, based on the patriot specs

 

[san~man]

Do your homework and search the net before you buy ANYONE's P/P heads.

You'll find tons of threads concerning which companies heads make power, which are reliable, and which aren't.

The one you're considering is usually classified in the "aren't" section.

 

[steveb24]

yea but only one person has claimed to have them and he says he has no problems so far. still waiting for him to post #'s tho. im just tired of listening to people "saying" alot of stuff, and than going to an actual shop or mustang "specialist" to find out what "people" are saying cause one person said it and the word spread, isnt true. .. so far its been c/c plates and a master bearing kit i didnt need but bought cause poeple swore on them.

and the reason im on here is to research.. so thats what im doing

 

[Pennywise2]

Intrusting stuff Kramer.
Don't get Patroit heads whatever you do.
Go with VT heads they rule!

 

[NITRYDER]

I BOUGHT STAGE 2 PORTED AND POLISHED HEADS FROM MODULAR MUSTANG RACING, I DID MY HOMEWORK AND TALKED TO ALOT OF PEOPLE, I NEVER HEARD ANY BAD COMMENT ABOUT THEIR HEADS. I HAVENT INSTALLED THEM YET BUT I WILL POST IT WHEN I DO.

 

[Yellow2002GT]

I am also going with the Patriot stage II heads and VT stang II cams..... The only issue I have heard with the stage III heads is PTV Clearance and cylender wall clearance......I was told that you need a .20 overbore for them to be optimal and with no issues and a better piston with a recess or larger dish!

"ED"

 

[steveb24]

I am also going with the Patriot stage II heads and VT stang II cams..... The only issue I have heard with the stage III heads is PTV Clearance and cylender wall clearance......I was told that you need a .20 overbore for them to be optimal and with no issues and a better piston with a recess or larger dish!

"ED"

so with stg 2 heads from patriot and vt stg 2 cams you are safe, but what if you bought the stg 3 heads from patroit and used vt stg 1 cams with them? would you be safe than?

 

[kramer03gt]

I guess from what i have read and talked to people about the stage 3's are more of a racing head than anything else, i guess on the street cars you really dont need to go anything more than stage 2, which i think makes sense being you start getting to nuts and then the car just doesnt become streetable anymore, and then its really no fun to enjoy. and i guess in reasearching i mean there are so many companies that are comming out with heads and cams now, i mean i just noticed livernois motorsports is comming out with them, i mean the overall HP numbers cant be that far off from company to company.. so i guess it makes the decision that much more intresting.