headers a waste of money?

billyfe390 · Mar 3, 2004

Jackie Chan said:
This post is my example of 2000GT posting just to read his own

example of everything 2000GT says about Longtubes:
:

I agree totally jackie.

THE BEST WAY TO MAKE AN ENGINE MORE POWERFUL/EFFICIENT IS TO GET MORE AIR IN/OUT.

If headers are the exception to this rule and do nothing then why does everybody complain about not having aftermarket intake options? I guess that would be a waste also huh? I mean why change anything the factory stuff is best right.

Obviously you are only concerned about peak power because of your extensive dyno racing experiance but in reality it doesnt mean s h i t.

What you are looking for it a broad across the board hp/tq curve with the high numbers you speak of not a freaking mountain peak. Headers in general help to broaden that curve hence the faster times at the track.

250hp car with broad curves with headers>250hp car with peak numbers

Dude quit trying to tell this to people you have no idea what you are talking about.

nickthegenius · Mar 3, 2004

If dyno numbers were so important compared to track times, 800-hp 12-sec Supras would rule the automotive performance world.

Dr. Wu 2000 · Mar 3, 2004

I appreciate everybody's feedback on this issue. It's clear that the
opinion is mixed. If money was not an issue, I would have done this
a long time ago. I don't think I can do the install myself, or it would
have been done a long time ago. I keep going back to my shop who
has done a lot of my installs, and who I respect their opinion very much,
telling me that the gains are not worth the time and money spent in
installing headers, for the bolt on's that I have. Maybe they hate doing
header installs, and they are just blowing smoke, I don't know. Thanx
for the opinions anyway, I appreciate it.

Jackie Chan · Mar 3, 2004

Dr. Wu 2000 said:
I appreciate everybody's feedback on this issue. It's clear that the
opinion is mixed. If money was not an issue, I would have done this
a long time ago. I don't think I can do the install myself, or it would
have been done a long time ago. I keep going back to my shop who
has done a lot of my installs, and who I respect their opinion very much,
telling me that the gains are not worth the time and money spent in
installing headers, for the bolt on's that I have. Maybe they hate doing
header installs, and they are just blowing smoke, I don't know. Thanx
for the opinions anyway, I appreciate it.

what is your shops specialty?

stangman · Mar 3, 2004

2000GT said:
Look, you are missing my point. Headers, when installed with a new mid-pipe do produce gains. However, you don’t need to install headers to reach the max. output of our GT’s (250 -260 SAE rwhp) with bolt-ons. You can get to 250 – 260 rwhp without ever bothering with headers. That’s all I am trying to say.

You can’t tell me that installing an o/r X pipe, welding in straight-through mufflers, K&N and a dynotune wouldn’t get you at least 250 SAE rwhp. Trust me, it will! The stock computer program is conservative. The tune will provide your car with a new timing curve and a/f curve. Those two changes in conjuction with the better airflow will net your at least 25 rwhp.

look, obviously YOU are missing the point of my post. i said that so the argument would have actual backing through dyno sheets, whether you are right or everyone else is right

Daves4.6GT · Mar 4, 2004

2000GT said:
Look, you are missing my point. Headers, when installed with a new mid-pipe do produce gains. However, you don’t need to install headers to reach the max. output of our GT’s (250 -260 SAE rwhp) with bolt-ons. You can get to 250 – 260 rwhp without ever bothering with headers. That’s all I am trying to say.

You can’t tell me that installing an o/r X pipe, welding in straight-through mufflers, K&N and a dynotune wouldn’t get you at least 250 SAE rwhp. Trust me, it will! The stock computer program is conservative. The tune will provide your car with a new timing curve and a/f curve. Those two changes in conjuction with the better airflow will net your at least 25 rwhp.

People like you are a disgrace to the Fourms......I have MAC LTs......Dont tell me I didnt feel Gains, and dont Change the subject and start talking about tunes again. I installed my headers the headers cost me $275 SHIPPED to me house.....I already had a Magnaflow X I choped it down and made it Fit......Free! (execpt the welding wire of course) Headers woke my car up big time and droped .35 of my ET.......Dont tell me they are not worth it......
I dedicate these 2 thumbs down to 2000GT

And here is my BS flag to hold up when you say headers arnt worth it.....

Dave

CottonBurnerz · Mar 4, 2004

Oh noes.. Long tube headers are worthless... but why the hell does all those manufacturers still here today selling long tubes? Explain......

2000GT · Mar 4, 2004

CottonBurnerz said:
Oh noes.. Long tube headers are worthless... but why the hell does all those manufacturers still here today selling long tubes? Explain......

Let me see, to make money off people?

Why do they continue to sell intake spacers for the 4.6L? Why do they continue to sell CAI's? We all know those things don't work, but yet people continue to purchase them.

Longtubes are not worthless. I never said that they were worthless. You guys love to twist things around. They simply are not needed. Just like pullies, larger MAF's, and intake spacers are not needed to make 250 - 260 rwhp.

And this crap about the better power curver with LT's is seriously a joke. My car as the same power curver as a car with LT's. There is no more "avg. hp." with LT's. I'd show you with dyno information, but the site won't allow me to attach a .jpg file larger than 71K. It's that's simple and yes, dyno results do matter.

Just because I belive LT's are not necessary, it's NOT a personal attack on everyone that has them. I have a C&L MAF and yes, it's worthless for what I have done to my car. If someone told me that, I would agree. Now if someone told me my x pipe was worthless, instead of getting upset and defensive, I'd ask them for proof, yes, dyno proof.

mogs01gt · Mar 4, 2004

Shrink down your picture, its easy. Send it to me if you want and I will shrink it down.

I already posted my dyno sheet and my torque looks pretty decent. I have yet to seen yours.

2000GT · Mar 4, 2004

Dr. Wu 2000 said:
I appreciate everybody's feedback on this issue. It's clear that the
opinion is mixed. If money was not an issue, I would have done this
a long time ago. I don't think I can do the install myself, or it would
have been done a long time ago. I keep going back to my shop who
has done a lot of my installs, and who I respect their opinion very much,
telling me that the gains are not worth the time and money spent in
installing headers, for the bolt on's that I have. Maybe they hate doing
header installs, and they are just blowing smoke, I don't know. Thanx
for the opinions anyway, I appreciate it.

I hope you understand that your shop could have easily attempted to talk you into purchasing headers and made some decent money off your purchase and installation.

Sounds like you have a good shop and good people working there.

2000GT · Mar 4, 2004

mogs01gt said:
Shrink down your picture, its easy. Send it to me if you want and I will shrink it down.

I already posted my dyno sheet and my torque looks pretty decent. I have yet to seen yours.

Thanks. I'll give it a try tonight as the file is saved on a different computer. Right now the file is like 200KB.

NasaGT · Mar 4, 2004

2000GT said:
Now look take a good look at your stock h-pipe and you will see the definition of restriction. Bolt up the JBA's to your stock h-pipe and you will see very little gain, if any.

I've seen several dynos showing 8-10rwhp with just a JBA shortie install. LTs produce more. Those stock manifolds are horrible restrictive.

billyfe390 · Mar 4, 2004

A little off topic here but 2000GT did you have your C&L maf calibrated to your AF or did you bolt it on? I was at our local dyno last night and a guy came in with a 2002 GT with a C&L that was running like ass. The dyno guy said that the C&L maf is calibrated to your injectors but the ford computer needs to have it calibrated to your AF ratio. He burned a diablo sport chip with the correct calibration and it made a helluva difference in the way the car ran. I didnt get numbers but it definately ran better you might have that done.

Jackie Chan · Mar 4, 2004

2000GT said:
And this crap about the better power curver with LT's is seriously a joke. My car as the same power curver as a car with LT's. There is no more "avg. hp." with LT's. I'd show you with dyno information, but the site won't allow me to attach a .jpg file larger than 71K. It's that's simple and yes, dyno results do matter.
.

Ok again, let's slow this down so maybe you can understand. A car with all of the boltons and longtubes Will make a very noticable amount more in avg horsepower than the same car with stock headers and an o/r midpipe. You are just to much of an a s s to admit that you are WRONG and then you take a car with all of the boltons and compare it to one with just longtubes and try to prove your dumb a s s point. So next time you bring up that your power under the curve is the same as a long tube equipped car, make sure you also say that you have all the boltons and the longtube car only has longtubes

billyfe390 · Mar 4, 2004

2000GT · Mar 4, 2004

billyfe390 said:
A little off topic here but 2000GT did you have your C&L maf calibrated to your AF or did you bolt it on? I was at our local dyno last night and a guy came in with a 2002 GT with a C&L that was running like ass. The dyno guy said that the C&L maf is calibrated to your injectors but the ford computer needs to have it calibrated to your AF ratio. He burned a diablo sport chip with the correct calibration and it made a helluva difference in the way the car ran. I didnt get numbers but it definately ran better you might have that done.

When I did my baseline pull the day of my tune, my a/f ratio was actually pretty rich, like 11:1. They tuned my car with the C&L MAF in place to a 13:1 a/f. My car didn't pick up much rwhp. from the tune, but it did pick up nice tq. gains throughout the curve and about 8-10 rwtq. at the peak. Plus, they corrected for my gears and check engine light. My engine fan also kicks on 5 degrees earlier than stock.

headers a waste of money?

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I didn't read this.

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I didn't read this.

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