Heat Soaking

[mustangfan1990]

OMG I hate this. When I get into traffic when I am cruising and the temp gets around 170 or so the car loses ALOT of power. Is there a cheaper way to get this thing to stay cool while I am driving and keep the hp loss to a min. I cant afford an intercooler for the vortech right now (1600 beans) I was thinking about the meth and water injection anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Mustang5L5]

Heat extractor hood and a larger fan??

 

[mustangfan1990]

Well I have the mach 1 hood which blows air directly on the SC and the fan I got I am not sure if I can go bigger or not it takes up almost the entire rad. The temp on the engine is normal and I am ok with the temp it is just when the engine gets that temp the SC doesnt seems to make as much power. I know it is heat soaking though

 

[Bullitt347]

water meth

Snow Performance makes an awesome water meth kit that will help a bunch. $450-600.00 depending on options. It will knock about 60 degrees off of the air outlet temp of the supercharger. Even with an intercooler I use the water meth kit to further the performance of the engine.

 

[mustangfan1990]

Snow Performance makes an awesome water meth kit that will help a bunch. $450-600.00 depending on options. It will knock about 60 degrees off of the air outlet temp of the supercharger. Even with an intercooler I use the water meth kit to further the performance of the engine.

How exactly does that work? I mean do you have to keep refilling it like you would with nitrous

 

[Bullitt347]

If you go to Snow Performance web site you will see detailed information on how it works and why it works and why you should use it in an application such as yours. Yes it has to be refilled, the frequency of the refills depends on the amount of water/meth spray, and how you choose to adjust the system to make it activate. Also how big of reservoir do you want to use/have room for. Re-filling the system is a MINOR inconvenience when you consider the potential cost of damage that detonation can cause to the engine, let alone your wallet. Plus the system will allow you to make more H.P., average H.P. improvement is around 50 H.P. depending on application and tune.

 

[90blacknight]

It may be that my reading comprehension skills are lacking, but is the OP not saying that 170 is too hot? Am I missing something here?

 

[capri debris]

^^^ That's what I was thinking.

170* is NOT hot... it's actually cool. If you can't keep it under 200*, then you have problems.

 

[Foxfan88]

Well I have the mach 1 hood which blows air directly on the SC and the fan I got I am not sure if I can go bigger or not it takes up almost the entire rad. The temp on the engine is normal and I am ok with the temp it is just when the engine gets that temp the SC doesnt seems to make as much power. I know it is heat soaking though

170 is COOL maybe its just normal. my car always runs HARDER when its first fired up and not all the way warmed up. its normal for a car to run faster when its cool than it does when its up to temp.

how much power are you losing?

 

[mustangfan1990]

170 is COOL maybe its just normal. my car always runs HARDER when its first fired up and not all the way warmed up. its normal for a car to run faster when its cool than it does when its up to temp.

how much power are you losing?

Well at the dyno it lost like 30 hp to the wheels because it was just sitting on the dyno. I know that 170 is not hot. I was saying that 170 was to hot. Iwas saying when the temp gets that hot it loses alot power (feels like it) I was thiinking because of the supercharger forcing hot air

 

[Foxfan88]

IIRC your running a good amount of boost. like 13 psi, thats a good amount, pressurizing air causes friction since the air molecules are rubbing against each other when you compress them. this is turn creates heat. heated air is less dense so say you have 50* air pressurized to 15 psi, and then you have 150* air at 15 psi... the 50* degree air will make more power. cooler air is denser and that means more oxygen. which means more power.

try the meth/water injection, that may help your problem

 

[blueblazes]

Heres some simple facts...
if you go water meth you will have to be re-tuned for water-meth combination this will be a stop gap measure as it will only help when your under boost since these generally only work during wot or once the maf voltage reaches a certain level, generally under load during wot.

Meth will on average reduce your IAT temps <which are totaly different from your engine coolant temps> by about 40-50degrees. This will result in horsepower increase in itself but if not PROPERLY tuned for it will cause a rich fuel mixture. Now the downside to this is that if you tune for this combo and you run out of meth your fuxxored.

You need to intercool that thing. If im not mistaken you got the cheap vortech unit which if im not mistaken is designed to run between 8-10lbs of boost. Yes it will make more but it leaves its efficiency range which results in added heat. Sometimes more boost isnt always better.

There was recently a 95 gt at TDS that went from 10lbs to 13lbs on his vortech and the car actually lost power due to the added heat from being out of its efficiency range and especially with no innercooler. With iat's as high as they will hit on setup like this any sensible tuner would pull timing to keep the car from detonating that you would end up loosing power. But sometimes you cant explain this to people its like

The engine coolant temps are best around 170degrees this is where most of these cars are designed to run and generally if they are cooler than this they will actually start to add fuel into the mixture. This is like when you crank a car you have whats called cold start fuel trims which add more fuel to allow for ease of cranking as well as help the car heat up. Alot of your good tuners will keep a car over nite to allow them to dial in these factors as well as others such as hot starts , idling, drivability issues and all these good things.

moral of the story meth isnt going to be the godsend you or others think it is.

You need an intercooler and need to turn the wick down some but then again dan shouldve already told you this

 

[mustangfan1990]

Heres some simple facts...
if you go water meth you will have to be re-tuned for water-meth combination this will be a stop gap measure as it will only help when your under boost since these generally only work during wot or once the maf voltage reaches a certain level, generally under load during wot.

Meth will on average reduce your IAT temps <which are totaly different from your engine coolant temps> by about 40-50degrees. This will result in horsepower increase in itself but if not PROPERLY tuned for it will cause a rich fuel mixture. Now the downside to this is that if you tune for this combo and you run out of meth your fuxxored.

You need to intercool that thing. If im not mistaken you got the cheap vortech unit which if im not mistaken is designed to run between 8-10lbs of boost. Yes it will make more but it leaves its efficiency range which results in added heat. Sometimes more boost isnt always better.

There was recently a 95 gt at TDS that went from 10lbs to 13lbs on his vortech and the car actually lost power due to the added heat from being out of its efficiency range and especially with no innercooler. With iat's as high as they will hit on setup like this any sensible tuner would pull timing to keep the car from detonating that you would end up loosing power. But sometimes you cant explain this to people its like

The engine coolant temps are best around 170degrees this is where most of these cars are designed to run and generally if they are cooler than this they will actually start to add fuel into the mixture. This is like when you crank a car you have whats called cold start fuel trims which add more fuel to allow for ease of cranking as well as help the car heat up. Alot of your good tuners will keep a car over nite to allow them to dial in these factors as well as others such as hot starts , idling, drivability issues and all these good things.

moral of the story meth isnt going to be the godsend you or others think it is.

You need an intercooler and need to turn the wick down some but then again dan shouldve already told you this

Well put!!! I dont know that I need to have it retuned with the water/meth kit. I am pushing 13 lbs at 4500rpms and if the belt doesnt slip it should make around 15. I do realize that that increases heat. The car feel strong when I am normally driving and I am fine with it running 170. All I want is for the IAT to be cooler while under boost so I will atleast keep the power that it is suppose to have. If it adds great but I am trying to be careful about making to much power but I need that car to be consistent if I want to beable to race at all. I REALLLLLLLY want an intercooler for this thing. That would awesome but they are 1600 dollars. I really cant afford it right now. I love how you said I bought the cheap version Vortech...lol Yeah the more expensive came with the aftercooler but I am 21 years old and support me, my fiance, and my son. Money is tight right now and I will have to save for the aftercooler. 450 dollars for a water/meth kit is alot easier than 1600 bucks for an aftercooler. But I understand me needing an aftercooler

 

[blueblazes]

Well put!!! I dont know that I need to have it retuned with the water/meth kit. I am pushing 13 lbs at 4500rpms and if the belt doesnt slip it should make around 15. I do realize that that increases heat. The car feel strong when I am normally driving and I am fine with it running 170. All I want is for the IAT to be cooler while under boost so I will atleast keep the power that it is suppose to have. If it adds great but I am trying to be careful about making to much power but I need that car to be consistent if I want to beable to race at all. I REALLLLLLLY want an intercooler for this thing. That would awesome but they are 1600 dollars. I really cant afford it right now. I love how you said I bought the cheap version Vortech...lol Yeah the more expensive came with the aftercooler but I am 21 years old and support me, my fiance, and my son. Money is tight right now and I will have to save for the aftercooler. 450 dollars for a water/meth kit is alot easier than 1600 bucks for an aftercooler. But I understand me needing an aftercooler

remember when you complained that 11.5 was to rich for na? Well how do you feel about 9.5 or 10.1 on supercharger. Because when you add meth its a combustible fuel and it richens the fuel mixture, thus requiring a retune for optimum results. Btw aaron never tuned john's car

If you want to cool the air then add a 25 or 50 wet nitrous shot on it. Its not a large hp jump and it will cool the temperatures down even more than methanol ever could. Also water cannot be compressed and burned its just there to help prevent detonation, so it takes up volume in the cylinders, methanol is there to raise the octane level of the fuel and help with cooling since it burns cooler, where as when you use nitrous its combustible unlike water and will have more cooling factor than methanol ever could. It could be a touch more expensive than methanol but will net better results also its highly unlikely that you would require a retune for a 25 or 50 wet shot since the kits that are generally this small provide an ample size fuel jet. Now if you go dry shot then you could bump fuel pressure some but this would throw the tune off in other places and I wouldnt recommend anything larger than 25 or so.

 

[03vertcobra]

dude if yoou got water/meth then you would def need it retuned. IDK why you think you wouldnt need it retuned. An you sound like me wanting to get more boost out of a blower that cant handle it. I finaly came to terms that it wont happen so im happy with what i got.

 

[mustangfan1990]

remember when you complained that 11.5 was to rich for na? Well how do you feel about 9.5 or 10.1 on supercharger. Because when you add meth its a combustible fuel and it richens the fuel mixture, thus requiring a retune for optimum results. Btw aaron never tuned john's car

If you want to cool the air then add a 25 or 50 wet nitrous shot on it. Its not a large hp jump and it will cool the temperatures down even more than methanol ever could. Also water cannot be compressed and burned its just there to help prevent detonation, so it takes up volume in the cylinders, methanol is there to raise the octane level of the fuel and help with cooling since it burns cooler, where as when you use nitrous its combustible unlike water and will have more cooling factor than methanol ever could. It could be a touch more expensive than methanol but will net better results also its highly unlikely that you would require a retune for a 25 or 50 wet shot since the kits that are generally this small provide an ample size fuel jet. Now if you go dry shot then you could bump fuel pressure some but this would throw the tune off in other places and I wouldnt recommend anything larger than 25 or so.

My bad dude I meant to say I know I need a retune. I said I didnt know but I do know that it would make it run richer. As far as john I am confused now about his car lol so I am not going to say anything else about it but thanks for the input

 

[mustangfan1990]

dude if yoou got water/meth then you would def need it retuned. IDK why you think you wouldnt need it retuned. An you sound like me wanting to get more boost out of a blower that cant handle it. I finaly came to terms that it wont happen so im happy with what i got.

Well technically my SC is capable of 20 pounds of boost so I think it can handle 15 considering I could go more by putting a bigger crank pulley. With the stock pulley I was having a hard time getting over 8 pounds of boost and you couldnt even really feel that.....IDK maybe it was just me

 

[blueblazes]

My bad dude I meant to say I know I need a retune. I said I didnt know but I do know that it would make it run richer. As far as john I am confused now about his car lol so I am not going to say anything else about it but thanks for the input

What is there to be confused about? You stated Aaron tuned Johns car to rich that it was tuned to 11.5 afr and that he was now driving it around na, although you did admit it was tuned for nitrous. So then you were implying that it was somehow aarons fault that the owner was using a richer nitrous tune to drive around on na. Well come to find out aaron never tuned his car because its never been tuned LOL

 

[mustangfan1990]

What is there to be confused about? You stated Aaron tuned Johns car to rich that it was tuned to 11.5 afr and that he was now driving it around na, although you did admit it was tuned for nitrous. So then you were implying that it was somehow aarons fault that the owner was using a richer nitrous tune to drive around on na. Well come to find out aaron never tuned his car because its never been tuned LOL

I think I MIGHT have misunderstood John. He said Aaron put a chip in his car and it was running to rich at lower RPMS. I thought that meant he tuned it....if I was wrong I will say I was wrong and apoligize....As far as John's car I am not talking about it on here anymore. If you want to tell me how dumb I am LOL then send me some PMs ok thanks

 

[blueblazes]

its not as fun to tell you how dumb you are in pm's
he never put a chip in it lol