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Help! After PI swap, runs great cold, chokes as it warms

  • Thread starter Thread starter Busted Knuckles
  • Start date Start date Nov 14, 2008
B

Busted Knuckles

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Nov 12, 2008
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Nov 14, 2008
#1
  • Nov 14, 2008
  • #1
This is somewhat of a duplicate post. I've greatly enhanced my detail and changed the thread title to be more accurate.

Here’s what’s happening:

I performed a PI intake swap with non-PI heads on my 98 Mustang GT with 58,000 miles. There is a faded sticker in the front of the engine bay that indicates a Ford dealer has modified something previously. The original intake was badly cracked at the tstat housing and there was coolant everywhere.

Since the swap, the car runs great when cold. It screams! 10-15 minutes after I start it up the idle will drop 300-400 rpms (from 1000). Once warm, it’s like a carbed car with the choke shut. Backfires under throttle, won’t rev smoothly, sounds like its loading up, etc. This happens whether it sitting idling or being driven. There is no CEL (check engine light) ever. It starts right up when cold, and is very difficult (sometimes impossible) to start when warm / hot.

I’ve replaced the ECT and the front O2 sensors already with no change.

All sensors are hooked up and all vacuum lines are visually solid and not cracked.

Because it’s a 98 I did not have to remove the water pump because the nipple on the back matches the 2001 return line I installed. I did not disconnect the fuel rails during the swap, but I did replace the injector o-rings. The pintle caps looked good with no cracked injectors. I used OEM PI intake gaskets and gray permatexed the two coolant passages to avoid leaking. In fact I used all Ford parts ( Tstat gasket, return line, o-rings). I torqued everything to Haynes specs. I did not remove or replace the spark plugs which I wanted to do after the swap was complete and correct. I try not to introduce too many events when doing something significant like this. Needless to say, there was substantial coolant in the plug holes after removal of the original intake which I wet-vacuumed out and then dried with a rag. There was probably slight moisture still present but if that’s the problem, why would it run perfectly when cold? Anyway, I vacuumed all debris while the intake was off. It has a 192 degree thermostat. I noticed a previous repair to the DPFE… seems a hose was replaced with a fuel/emissions hose of a possibly slightly larger inner diameter and the plastic hose barb on the DPFE had been glued or epoxied back together. I also noticed rusty brown emissions from the pipes after start up. There is no white smoke and otherwise the exhaust is normal. I plan on power flushing the system once everything is running well (one event at a time!).

Please… all suggestions and questions are welcome!

Dave
 

98E9GT

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Dec 16, 2007
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Nov 14, 2008
#2
  • Nov 14, 2008
  • #2
I did the PI Intake install with no problems other than a very minimal coolant leak on the driver side rear port. I was having somewhat similar problems like yours did when my MAF was going bad. It has to be a sensor IMO. The computer when the engine is cold is adding more fuel, but once it warms up to regular running temperature the fuel go's back to regular fuel pressure or whatever. I say clean your maf and or replace and see what happens. I got mine from a junk yard for 25 dollars delivered to my front door. Been working fine for over a year now.
 
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Busted Knuckles

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#3
  • Nov 14, 2008
  • #3
98E9GT said:
I was having somewhat similar problems like yours did when my MAF was going bad. It has to be a sensor IMO. The computer when the engine is cold is adding more fuel, but once it warms up to regular running temperature the fuel go's back to regular fuel pressure or whatever. I say clean your maf and or replace and see what happens. I got mine from a junk yard for 25 dollars delivered to my front door. Been working fine for over a year now.
Click to expand...


I too believe it to be a sensor... I just don't know which one! It runs great till its warmed up! I'll clean up the MAF and test it but I don't see what impact that would have at idle?

Dave
 

96GT281

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Apr 12, 2008
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Stuart, Fl
Nov 14, 2008
#4
  • Nov 14, 2008
  • #4
sounds like the MAF to me. my moms bf's car had the same problems. try tapping on the MAF with the plastic on a screwdriver when the car is running. if it idles down or does something funky then thats your problem.
 

98E9GT

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#5
  • Nov 14, 2008
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Yeah I would go try the Handle of a Screwdriver trick, it really does work. What did you use to clean the MAF? If you dont mind me asking...they are very very sensitive and fragile.
 
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Busted Knuckles

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#6
  • Nov 15, 2008
  • #6
Thanks I'll check out the MAF tomorrow.

I received a couple of PM's stating I should change the plugs because after soaking in A/F they may be breaking up once heated.

Thanks to all,

Dave
 

98E9GT

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#7
  • Nov 15, 2008
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Oh, well yeah if they touched some antifreeze you should definitely replace those. I went ahead and replaced my wires too, because i was getting a miss under a load with new plugs. NPI Posse for the save!
 
2

2002BLGT

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Dec 18, 2003
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Bedford VA
Nov 15, 2008
#8
  • Nov 15, 2008
  • #8
clean the MAF , then new plugs , then if that doesnt do it new 02s , swapping intakes should have affected the MAF unless it was bad before and you just didnt notice it ....which I would think you would have
 
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Busted Knuckles

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#9
  • Nov 15, 2008
  • #9
Well here is the happy ending...

I changed the plugs and now all is well. I think they were the originals and they were gapped at .080! They didn't look bad but with 58,000 miles they were due anyway.

I used Autolite (no motorcraft in stock anywhere!) coppers and gapped 'em @ .054. I prefer copper to platinum... conducts better.


My sincere thanks to all !!!!!

Dave
 

Pearl02

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Nov 27, 2004
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Kansas City
Nov 15, 2008
#10
  • Nov 15, 2008
  • #10
98E9GT said:
Yeah I would go try the Handle of a Screwdriver trick, it really does work. What did you use to clean the MAF? If you dont mind me asking...they are very very sensitive and fragile.
Click to expand...

O'reilly auto sells mass airflow sensor cleaner. I pcked up a can of it. I've also used electical contact cleaner to clean it. It's a little cheaper that the mass cleaner. Pearl02.
 

98E9GT

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#11
  • Nov 15, 2008
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Thats awesome to hear busted knuckles. I really hope your enjoying the intake, im loving mine. PI cams and PP heads are in progress now!
 
P

poindexternasty

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Apr 29, 2008
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Nov 17, 2008
#12
  • Nov 17, 2008
  • #12
98E9GT said:
Yeah I would go try the Handle of a Screwdriver trick, it really does work. What did you use to clean the MAF? If you dont mind me asking...they are very very sensitive and fragile.
Click to expand...

Use electrical parts cleaner ONLY on the MAF. Do NOT use carb or brake cleaner, etc. Only electrical parts cleaner is to be used because it does not leave a residue after it dries, a residue that could potentially foul your sensor even more.

A can of it is like $6 at the parts house.
 

snidehockey

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Nov 17, 2008
#13
  • Nov 17, 2008
  • #13
you said

98E9GT said:
PP heads
Click to expand...

 

98E9GT

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#14
  • Nov 17, 2008
  • #14
snidehockey said:
you said



Click to expand...

Dirty Boy...dirty dirty boy!
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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NC State University
Dec 28, 2008
#15
  • Dec 28, 2008
  • #15
I currently have the exact same problem with my 98 gt. Runs perfectly normal and smooth when the car is cold. 10 minutes later, when it's warm, it runs like crap when under a load.

I think I'm gonna replace the plugs anyway, but why would that solve the problem? Seems to me like if the plugs are causing this problem, then it would run bad all time? Any ideas?
 
B

Busted Knuckles

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#16
  • Dec 28, 2008
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In my case I believe the porcelain of the insulator was exposed to antifreeze for too long a period which caused it to deteriorate to the point that the electrode was effected adversely by the engines heat when the engine warmed. Good LucK!
 

nyuk98gt

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Oct 10, 2000
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Chesterfield, MO
Dec 29, 2008
#17
  • Dec 29, 2008
  • #17
sneaky98gt said:
I currently have the exact same problem with my 98 gt. Runs perfectly normal and smooth when the car is cold. 10 minutes later, when it's warm, it runs like crap when under a load.

I think I'm gonna replace the plugs anyway, but why would that solve the problem? Seems to me like if the plugs are causing this problem, then it would run bad all time? Any ideas?
Click to expand...

Check the ECT sensor. There is a write-up in the Haynes manual. Basically, you check the resistance across the sensor terminals when the engine is cold and when it is hot. If the ohms are within range for the cold and hot conditions then the sensor is good. If the ohms are out of range, replace the sensor. The ECT is used for a lot of stuff in the calibration and if it is incorrect, the car will run poorly.

Do you have access to a datalogger like an XCal2 and a laptop? Data is very helpful and will save a lot of time and effort and money spent on parts that were really OK. Just sayin'.....

HTH,

Chris
 

sneaky98gt

10 Year Member
Apr 23, 2008
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Dec 29, 2008
#18
  • Dec 29, 2008
  • #18
Changed the plugs today. It solved the problem. And oh man do I love that new power!!!
 
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