Help me build a short block combo

Great68 · Nov 24, 2004

Here's the scoop.

I want to start a long term project to build up a stout short block to better compliment my top end and of course make more power reliably. This is a project I would like to build as I slowly acquire parts. I would like to be in the 300 wheel horsepower range N/A (Which I don't think is unreasonable).

My car is 99% street duty, and cruising around town. I found out that in fact I do a lot of highway driving so higher gears are a must (no more than 3.25:1), as well as I need it to not want to stall at stoplights and be able to operate the power steering and power brakes in parking lots.

I would like to reuse as much as the top end parts as I can (Heads, intake, carb, roller rockers). And I would like to keep the fuel supplied with a mechanical fuel pump.

My current set up is:
302 block 289, 0.030" over
Stock crank, rods
Cast 0.030" pistons (Brand unknown)
Afr 165's, 61cc combustion chambers
Comp XE262H Cam
Crane Blazer 1.6 Roller Rockers
Speed Demon 650 Vac Sec Carb
Edelbrock Performer RPM Mechanical Fuel Pump

So what I need your opinion on are the following:

Block:
I would like to go to a roller cam, but don't like the idea of retrofitting a non-roller block. Should a stock roller block do fine (reliably) for my power goals?

Crank:
I would definately like to go to 331 cubes, so a stroker crank is in the cards. I know a lot of people would say that the AFR 165's are small for a 331, and that the 185's are a better choice but I don't care about absolute peak horsepower potential. I think the 165's should still make more power on a 331 than a 289. What brands would be a good choice?

Rods:
Type? Brand?

Pistons:
Type (I don't mind paying for Forged if it's worth it, I wouldn't mind the option of putting a small shot of nitrous on the motor down the line)? Brand?

Bearings:
Brand?

Cam:
Any recommendations?

Stud Girdle?
Helpful or waste of money for me

Of course all fasteners would be ARP.

Am I missing anything?

Vinyl66 · Nov 24, 2004

I would also like to know people's opinions about the block, pistons, rods, induction etc. because I am pretty much in the same boat as you, thinking about putting a stroker in my '66.

I believe the 165's you have would work perfectly fine on a 331. I have read many threads where others have said go with the 185's but since you have the 165's and they flow VERY well in stock form, I don't see how they would be a limiting factor in a moderately built 331.

As of now I am thinking my combo will probably be a 347 or 331 with around 10:1 compression with hyper pistons and I beam rods. If you are serious about N2O in the future then I would shoot for a little less compression and forged pistons. I think a stock roller block will do fine for naturally aspirated applications but may be too weak if a large dose of nitrous (>100) is used.

One very fast and streetable combo that impresses me is washmo66 and his 347 coupe. His 347 with ported 185's, comp roller cam 274,750 demon, with c4 and 3.70 gears runs mid 11's! I will probably try to model his combo a bit except use my top end consisting of Twisted Wedge heads and 650 speed demon.

I also think your rockers, intake, carb, and fuel pump will work very well on a 331. I believe the Comp. XE266 roller cam would go well with this combo as well.
Do you have 1 5/8" headers? Do you have an idea of the compression ratio you would like to have? You do not want to have too much cam and compression with 3.25 gears.

rbohm · Nov 24, 2004

1: block, since you want a roller cam i would recomend using an 85-95 block since they are already settup for roller cams.

2: cam the comp cams xe274hr roller cam is a good street cam that will compliment your heads.

3: for the rotating assembly i would recomend saving for a complete kit as that way you get everything at once, including rings and bearings. most kits use federal mogul bearings and rings. by all means have to rotating assembly balanced. and forged pistons, while not neccessary on a street motor, are not a bad idea for what you want.

4: as for your current top end parts, use them all as they are fairly well matched to the combination.

Great68 · Nov 24, 2004

Vinyl66 said:
Do you have 1 5/8" headers? Do you have an idea of the compression ratio you would like to have? You do not want to have too much cam and compression with 3.25 gears.

I have Reproduction Tri-Y's for headers. I wouldn't mind a compression ratio of 9.5-10:1 As long as I can run on pump gas (94 octane is premium up here).

67coupe351w · Nov 24, 2004

Are you against a 351? You can get a roller block 351, already got the extra cubes built in and it will bolt right in as well.

Great68 · Nov 24, 2004

67coupe351w said:
Are you against a 351? You can get a roller block 351, already got the extra cubes built in and it will bolt right in as well.

I'm worried about the hood clearance. AND i'd have to get a new intake.

se7en-zero · Nov 25, 2004

If you are serious about N2O in the future then I would shoot for a little less compression and forged pistons. I think a stock roller block will do fine for naturally aspirated applications but may be too weak if a large dose of nitrous (>100) is used.

Nitrous 'loves' compression...lowering the compression to run nitrous is not only a myth but also a bad option...Compression and nitrous actually get along rather well.

For what it is worth, the stock 5.0 bottom end is good for 450-500hp. I know plenty of people that run 200 shots of nitrous on bone stock bottom ends. I also know plenty of people that put 7-12 pounds of boost to a stock bottom end.

Go 'forged' if you have the money, it really wont be needed for a mild street motor.

I would def. get a main girdle and bolt the whole motor together with ARP stuff...

Vinyl66 · Nov 25, 2004

se7en-zero said:
Nitrous 'loves' compression...lowering the compression to run nitrous is not only a myth but also a bad option...Compression and nitrous actually get along rather well.

For what it is worth, the stock 5.0 bottom end is good for 450-500hp. I know plenty of people that run 200 shots of nitrous on bone stock bottom ends. I also know plenty of people that put 7-12 pounds of boost to a stock bottom end.

Go 'forged' if you have the money, it really wont be needed for a mild street motor.

I would def. get a main girdle and bolt the whole motor together with ARP stuff...

True, you can run nitrous on a high compression engine (even a 13:1 compression race engine) but you must be much more careful with the nitrous/ fuel ratio and must have PLENTY of octane to go with it as well. One reason is that N20 cools so well. The cylinder pressures still go up using nitrous which is why I would rather have a little cushion on my street engine with starting with a 9.5 or so ratio as compared to a 10.5 compression.

I think the stock roller block is good too, but if a stroker is making about 400hp (not too difficult) and you add a 100 shot of N20 then you would be pushing it.

WORTH · Nov 25, 2004

The words 300HP and Nitrous should not be used in the same sentence.

'69Stang · Nov 25, 2004

I think you have all the parts for a really nice combo. To gain additional power I would get the AFR 165's ported to match the additional cubes. I agree with others who say that these will match up very well with 331 cubes and a little more proting will make them work that much better. A good compression ratio might be around 10.5:1 since you will be able to run premium pump gas, develop good power, and avoid detonation. A roller cam would be a great thing. Personally, the solid rollers are unbeatable. A good compromise is the Comp Cams 282S solid lifter cam which gives 236/236 duration at .050 and is considerably cheaper than a roller. The Performer RPM is a very good intake and a good choice with your gear. Good luck, it should work out well.

fastback brian · Nov 25, 2004

I would go with a atleast a dart sportsman block and forged scat crank and rods. SRP pistons will work great for just about anything but the big power adders. Your compression ratio will and should depend on heads and cam choice. But you may end up with around 10-11 to 1 for a street setup. My personal opinion is to go with a 3.4 stroke for the extra power and torque. And a custom solid lifter flat cam will work just fine.

Great68 · Nov 26, 2004

fastback brian said:
I would go with a atleast a dart sportsman block and forged scat crank and rods.

That would probably be a bit over kill would it not? I mean sure I have a big strength potential, but I can't imagine I'd make enough power to need to have that much strength. I think it would also be out of my price range.

I would also like to stay with a hydraulic cam, I don't like the thought of adjusting the lash every so often. (I'm lazy hahaha )

Fostang · Nov 26, 2004

What you have is fine to get you 300 rwhp no problem.... no reason to upgrade and waste more money.

Maybe a custom cam.

With proper tune that combo will do what you want out of it.

I am a firm believer that the build is as equally important if not more than the parts that go into. The cam should be installed perfectly no eye balling the dots. Using proper tools and measuring out clearences insures the motor will last a real long time and spin how it should.

I have made 500 rwhp out of a stock block 306 no nitrous. It is possible to squeeze a lot of these little motors.

Then you have fastback brian suggesting a 2k block and using a 600 cheap forged crank. WHY? Thats when Billet stuff comes into play. Take advantage of the 2K hp capabality.

Also don't wast your money on forged or H beam stuff on a stock 302 block. Just forged pistons.

Forged pistons are a must for power adders. gives you a little more room to play with. Also the top ring gap should be bigger.

11's are a common thing with a 331 and 347 with traction.

Just so you know a stock bottom end will take 200 shot no problem. I'm talking 5.0 roller with trw pistons standard on 87-92 mustangs and some lincolns.

This is comming from a person that has tried out this crap no bench racing here.

Help me build a short block combo

Great68

Vinyl66

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rbohm

Great68

67coupe351w

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Great68

se7en-zero

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Vinyl66

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WORTH

'69Stang

fastback brian

Great68

Fostang

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